[00:00:14] Speaker A: Welcome to the clear. Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, December 4, 2023.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: For more than 100 years, Emory Universities guiseueta Business School has been a training ground for principal leaders and a laboratory for powerful insights. Whether you're looking to accelerate your career or make a career pivot, Emory's one year and two year full time MBA programs prepare you for a lifetime of career confidence. Learn more about Emory's top 20 MBA with top five career outcomes, offering world class academics and small by design classes delivered in a dynamic global city. More at Emory biz clearadmit.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going?
[00:01:02] Speaker C: Very good. Thank you, Graham.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: So, can you believe it's? Know it's Christmas season is kind of upon us. I haven't bought any gifts yet. I don't know if you have, but.
[00:01:10] Speaker C: Mean, I've just got back from London. You can tell the season has changed and the lights are up and, yeah, we're definitely moving into that time of year. And obviously it's gotten a little colder, too.
But, yeah, things are changing.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Yeah, and I'm actually recording this week's episode from Milan, Italy. And it's cold here, too. Very Christmassy and stuff. So I've never been to Milan, but I'm here for a conference that's being run by GMAT, the makers of the GMAT exam. And it's a conference for all the European MBA programs. So I'm going to be hanging out with people from the likes of Lbs and HEC and Gosh, INSEAD, IMD, Imperio. I mean, all the top kind of European schools gather to talk admissions trends, and I'm actually giving a talk at the conference.
[00:01:57] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: That'll be fun. But we have a lot going on. I do want to get a recap in because I know last week we had admissions decisions begin to flow out for round one from a couple of schools. But what's on tap for this coming week? Because this is one of the big decision weeks for round one.
[00:02:14] Speaker C: Yeah, hopefully last week we should have seen from Lbs and Booth, we were recording just slightly before they're scheduled to release. But this upcoming week, twelve top programs are scheduled to release their decisions. There might be a 13th depending on when Columbia releases theirs. But we've got Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Darden, Tepper, Goyzetta, Tuck, Has, McDonough, Fuqua, Ross and Johnson amongst the schools that will release decisions. So that mean hopefully that means we'll see a lot of activity on Livewire, hopefully lots of great news from our cleared MC community.
And then we'll see some activity on decision wire as people start to then weigh their decisions, maybe getting feedback from the community if they have selected undecided, if someone's got multiple options and so forth. So, yeah, lots of activity coming up next week.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Graham yeah, and I want to encourage everyone listening to keep sharing your news on livewire. And then, as Alex says, if you get into multiple schools and you're kind of wanting to share those kind of that sort of outcome, you can use Decision Wire. I love the undecided entries. I love weighing in on those when people are like, oh, I got in here and here with this amount of money, where should I go? So we love seeing those. So keep posting on the site. It's also a busy week, Alex, in that we have two events, so it's been kind of nonstop around here. But today at noon Eastern, we've got our Clearadmit Plus monthly webinar, which is for anyone who's a registered
[email protected], and it's free to be a registered user. So go over to the site and register if you've never done so. And then you can get access by clicking the Clearadmit Plus button and just come on and join to I know Alex will always kind of prepare slides, but then we mostly end up just taking people's questions. It's almost like an office hours, and the questions that we've had the last couple of times we've done this have been so great. So I'm looking forward to hearing from people later today, actually, when we do it. So we'll see. So that's the first event, and then the second event this week is on Wednesday. And that's aimed at kind of current college students who are interested in maybe going directly into a Master's in Management program. And so I'm going to be McGing this one, and it's at noon Eastern as well, on Wednesday, December 6. And I'm going to sit down with admissions directors from Duke, Georgetown, Emory, Kellogg, and Notre Dame. And so we're just going to be learning more about what is a Master's in Management and how does it differ from an MBA. And so we've been doing a lot know marketing to kind of the college communities out there, and so we'll see how that one goes. It's kind of a new thing for us that we've just started doing, but I'm looking forward to that because I want to learn more about these programs, too.
[00:04:54] Speaker C: Yeah, like you say, it's a bit of a new domain for us. So best of luck and hopefully it's a great event.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: So I know you picked out three candidates for us to discuss this week, so I'm going to zip through some news items. I would be remiss if I did not talk about an article we ran on the LinkedIn ranking. So, as you may know, LinkedIn have.
[00:05:12] Speaker C: We need another ranking.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: LinkedIn have published another I know, yeah, they've published a ranking now it's just of American MBA, full time MBA programs. And the ranking has a lot of the usual suspects. In fact, I think across the top 16, it's the usual 16 that we kind of see in that group. People might quip with the order. What's kind of interesting about it is that it's based on job titles and kind of so career outcomes and they had some interesting requirements, like you can't participate in this ranking unless you're alumni. I guess you have to have graduated 500 alums in the last five years or something like that. And they have to be on LinkedIn, obviously, because LinkedIn is using the data in LinkedIn about these people's jobs and stuff to sort of figure out how to rank the schools. So I don't know, I kind of think of it as a really narrow ranking. I mean, it doesn't include international schools, but also I don't know about you, but I actually like the rankings that also incorporate elements of the admissions kind of selection process, probably because I work in that side of it. But I think it does matter if the folks in the classroom with you are really bright and are really accomplished and have pretty amazing backgrounds and things. So that's not really captured here. Right. And I don't know, I'm a little worried about smaller programs maybe not being included and then finally just the idea that they don't give us an index. There's no raw scoring in this ranking. So you just see that schools are ranked ordinally but you don't have a sense of how far is school number one from school number two. Right.
We don't really know. They're not letting us look under the hood much, so I don't know. I know you're not a big fan.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: Are they differentiating between full time, part time and executive MBA graduates and alums?
[00:07:09] Speaker A: I believe so. Although you're raising a really interesting point in know, some of these schools. Like they make it a point to say, hey, if you graduate from Wharton with an executive MBA, you don't put just you have an MBA from Wharton. I mean, it's the same degree.
[00:07:23] Speaker C: Well, that's my point. It's like how are they distinguishing between these programs?
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah, I don't know. They might be able to, but it's a very good question.
[00:07:33] Speaker C: I'm full of great questions, Graham, especially when it comes to a new ranking that we don't need.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: The last thing that I was going to say, the cynic in me feels that this really benefits LinkedIn. I mean, it's like every school now is going to be chasing after their grads to make sure that, oh, make sure your LinkedIn profile is up to date and that you put that you attended our program on there. And I find it you might say, well, everyone's got their LinkedIn profile up to date. But I find that the people who have their profiles the most up to date are often the people who are looking for work and maybe are in a moment in their career where maybe they're not as successful. Whereas the people who ran off and started a company and are doing big things or whatever, sometimes they let their LinkedIn profile lapse a little bit. Right. So I don't know, it could just be me, but anyway, that's that ranking it's out, and I should have read it off, but basically they ranked it as Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Wharton, MIT, Kellogg, Berkeley, Yale, Chicago, Duke. That was their top ten. And I know you were like, oh, how'dartmouth get in there ahead of Wharton and stuff? And again, they don't let us know that.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: Again, these are all great programs that they're listing. So I'm not oh, yeah, not quibbling in that regard. I would certainly suspect that TOC's not the third best in the world or in the US. But nevertheless, it is a really strong program. What we do know about TOC, though, is they have a really strong alumni network. So maybe that plays into their sort of all keeping up to date on LinkedIn. And yeah, whether it's us. News, whether it's Wall Street Journal, whether it's LinkedIn, whether it's what do we need just yet another ranking that doesn't quite get it right. I'm a big believer in the tiered rankings that we've rolled out or sort of really focus on, and nobody can convince me otherwise. There is a real structure to the rankings, and top programs sit in specific tiers.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree, as you know. So anyway, that's on the site, there's an article where we have I think I'm quoted in there with some thoughts on it. Anyway, that's there we did run a bunch of other content over the past week, which I'll try to zip through here. One thing was, we did two admissions tips. One was about video essays. So if you're applying in Round two, you'll notice that some of the schools will require you to submit what we call like a video essay. It's where they give you a minute and you have to introduce yourself to your classmates. This varies from school to school, but there are assignments like that, which we call video essays. So there's some tips there.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: I'm seeing more and more of this. Graham seeing more and more of this.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:10:06] Speaker C: Possibly if you get on the waitlist at Booth, you might have to submit a video essay.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a lot of things like that now, and there's even things that are triggered, like if you get an interview, some schools then have you do a video. So, yeah, there's a lot more video in use. And then the other admissions tip we ran was on data forms, which is just the application form itself, but so many candidates leave that for the last minute. So we have some very good and important advice on how to tackle that.
We did run another article in that sustainability series. This most recent entry in that series comes from Kellogg Northwestern, and they have, like, more than 20 courses that they say are grounded in climate, environment, and energy.
They have one in particular. I thought I'd just read a quick thing. They have this course called Managing Sustainability Transformations.
And this is a course that explores paradigm shift in corporate sustainability as no longer just a matter of compliance or social responsibility, but as becoming a material imperative for the future viability of the business. So that's kind of an interesting thing that we are seeing.
[00:11:08] Speaker C: Couldn't agree more.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: That's totally accurate, I think. So interesting that they have a course devoted to that now.
[00:11:13] Speaker C: But is it a required course, Graham?
[00:11:15] Speaker A: No, I don't think so. That's just one of many.
[00:11:18] Speaker C: That's the problem. It's a course like that that should be required because the end of the know, you could go to Kellogg. Fantastic program. If these are all electives, you can continue on as business as usual. I think some of this absolutely needs well, I'm sure some of it is in the core curriculum, but that sounds like a really interesting course. That could well be something that folks should take.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think they are.
It's a very long article and there are other aspects to it where they talk about the core and things. But I just thought that was kind of an interesting course because you've often been talking about that, how it's no longer just this matters to almost every company and in ways that are different than before. It's not just fashionable, it's sort of imperative. Right.
We also ran a couple more articles in our Real Humans students series. So we talked to students from UT, austin McCombs, five students over there. We caught up with students from Georgetown, McDonough and then also London Business School. And because we have a lot to get to this week, I'm not going to get into quotes and things from those articles, but I will say I looked at Lbs because we talked to six students. I was kind of curious, like, where are these students from? So here's the list. Okay? There's six students. One's from Tanzania, one's from India, Chile, California, Kenya and the United Kingdom. And I think that part of is probably a pretty good summary of what you get over at Lbs in terms of kind of a truly international group of students. So pretty interesting. And I'm sure that they probably handpicked these students for the article for those reasons, but still pretty cool to see.
[00:12:53] Speaker C: That's brilliant. I was on LBS's campus last week. Love it. Yeah, absolutely brilliant.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Very nice. Speaking of Lbs, they released their class profile. So the students that are currently first years lbs. Typically publishes that a little bit later than the US school. So that's out. Now there are 487 students in the class, maybe some of whom you saw walking around campus.
That number is down a little bit. It was 509 last year. So they have a slightly smaller class and just some facts and figures. I mean, 33% of the class comes from Asia, 18% from North America, 17% from south and Central America, 12% from Europe, 6% from the UK. So really 18% from what I would call Europe. But I guess the UK is separate in these stats. Middle east 6%, africa four, oceania four. So very balanced kind of class in terms of where people are coming from, in terms of the stats. They have on average, five and a half years of work experience. The mean GMAT score was a 700 and the median 710. They did not offer any GRE stats, but they said that they like to see candidates hitting at least 160 in each section. So 320 total.
And they didn't give any information about grades. And I think that's because, given how international they are, they're grabbing people from all over the world. They're not normalizing GPAs, so they don't report the way the US schools do an average GPA. So anyway, what do you make of that? That's kind of their class profile.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting. I think these European schools do do a really good job of having a strong international mix. They don't have that dominant domestic pool that the US programs do.
Having said that, I think that Euro number is a little on the lower end, and I'd be interested to see if that has shrunk a little bit as a result of, should I say it the ridiculous idea of Brexit.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I wonder about that too.
I will say the NBA has never been as popular in Europe as it is in some of these other markets, but it has to be down. I can't imagine that that was the number, like ten years ago, that's Lbs. And then the only other thing I wanted to share before we move into the candidates this week is that UVA darden published their employment report. So we've been profiling these the last few weeks, or last couple of months almost, in terms of schools releasing these, but I'll just give you the facts and figures and be curious to hear any thoughts that you have. So Darden 96% of the class had a job offer within three months of graduation. That's actually even better than last year, where it was 94%. The starting salary for Darden grads breaks a record for them, it's $168,000. That's up from 157. So a little bit of an uptick there. And then I'll give you the kind of industries and regional placements. So we'll start with industries. 46% of the class is going into consulting, that's up from 44%, 26% into financial services. Pretty much unchanged. It was 25% last year, 11% heading into tech. That's down from 14%. 4% going into healthcare and 3% going into retail. Those are pretty much unchanged. And then in terms of where people are landing, 33% landed in the northeast. That's down just slightly from 35%, 23% in the mid Atlantic. So in Darden's backyard, basically, DC, et cetera, that's up from 20%. 13% went into the south, 11% to the southwest, 11% to the west coast, and 8% to the midwest. None of those numbers are changing too dramatically.
The west coast type numbers. Southwest and west are down a tick.
So what do you make of Darden's placement figures?
[00:16:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I think they're very similar to what we've heard from other top programs. Right. Consulting numbers seem to be very high, despite the fact that we wonder if everyone's actually starting.
They've got offers, but when do they actually start is probably a question that drives up the overall median salary, even though inflation would drive that up, too, I presume.
So that makes sense. And the tech sector is dropping, which it has done at several other programs, and we've seen lots of big tech layoffs add in the marketplace.
So these numbers again, very good. Darden, very good. Similar to lots of the other top programs, I think.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, clearly some strength in the Mid Atlantic and Northeast and south regions, which you would, you know, as the tech jobs decline, I guess you yeah. More people staying out on the East Coast and less going out.
Those are the kind of news items for this week. We're going to get into our candidates. Now, I did want to remind people you can always email Alex and I by writing to
[email protected]. Use the subject line Wiretaps, and we still would love to see reviews. So if you're listening on Apple, where you can easily leave a review, please remember to rate and review this show. It really helps others to discover the show. So pick candidates coming after you. But Alex, anything else before we dive into the candidates?
[00:18:15] Speaker C: No, let's kick on.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: All right, so this is Wiretaps candidate number one.
So our first candidate this week is actually not applying until next cycle. Right. So they're going to apply in in the fall to start in fall 25.
And they've got seven schools on their target list. Those schools are Berkeley INSEAD, lbs, Michigan, MIT, Chicago, Booth and UVA. Darden and they've been working in project management. They'd love to get into consulting and maybe tech in the post MBA kind of time frame. Their GRE is a whopping 335. Their undergraduate GPA is 3.4. They've got five years of work experience. They're currently in the US. And they want to stay. They already have an Ms in what they wrote as Civil English, which is obviously a typo. I think it's civil engineering, but I was thinking about this and I was like, wow, a Master's in Civil English. It could be like super polite English.
But anyway, they have a Master's in Civil Engineering in which they earned a 3.7 out of four. And that was earned, I believe, in the United States because they mentioned that they came to the US. From India about eight years ago. So that kind of lines up in terms of the timeline. Sorry, I'm losing my voice here today.
They are currently pursuing a professional Ms in software engineering, and they also have a 3.9 out of four in that degree. And they're going to finish that by next year. So that's something they're doing part time while they work. And they've had in that job two promotions in five years. They're leading a satellite office for their company in a university research park at a research one university in the United States. They've got 40 interns that they're managing in an AI machine learning space.
And they mentioned they're Indian, but they've been living in the US for eight years. So I'm assuming that undergrad GPA of three, four probably earned in India. Then they came to the US, got a master's degree in civil engineering, not English, and then have been working since and adding another degree. So, yeah. What do you make of this person? Because I think there are a lot of issues to sort of tackle here. So I'm going to give you the floor. Tell me what you think of this candidate.
[00:20:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I think this candidate is probably very bright. I mean, obviously 335 GRE.
They've got two Master well, they're completing a second master's degree and so forth. So I think they check that box and let's assume that their work experience is also very strong. They seem to have some leadership exposure, some impact, and so on and so forth. And they're working, looks like, in a space that's quite topical, artificial intelligence, machine learning and so forth.
I would say that side of it is all very strong. I think their goals probably make sense moving into tech innovation and so forth. Post MBA, there are a couple of areas that they want to be careful of. One, they want to make sure that they apply in the first round next season, really target that first round, because they're probably going to be considered overrepresented, even though they spent eight years in the US.
I'm speculating I think it's India heritage.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: Yeah, they said that.
[00:21:40] Speaker C: And in the tech sector. Right. So they sort of really potentially makes them overrepresented. So round one is really important for them. They've got to really distinguish themselves from that group of high caliber smart candidates.
We talk sometimes about this idea of someone simply being a degree collector.
So they will already have three degrees, some band somewhere, three degrees already in the bag by the time they start their MBA.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:12] Speaker C: So they'll need to overcome this idea that the adcom's reading is thinking, all right, what degrees next after the MBA? It's like really show why the MBA makes perfect sense for them now to execute on those goals post MBA, as well as justifying the prior degrees, to sort of set them on the path. I understand the civil engineering sort of looks like their first degree coming over from India to the United States, set them up for what they're doing and so on and so forth. So that degree collector thing is something for them to overcome.
They're a little light on their extracurriculars. So I'd like to know a little bit more about the personality of who this person is. What are they interested in and passionate about outside of work, hobbies and interests? To show that they're more than just the not just because obviously their work looks like they've done very well and so forth. But there's more to this individual than we're seeing as a strong worker with strong academics. But that would be my assessment.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Graham yeah, and I think you've hit the nail on the head on all these fronts. I think one of the thing that really does jump out to me is admissions committees don't like to see the kind of tech this person's obviously a tech person, and when you ask them about Hobies and outside activities, they don't really have any right now. And they mentioned, I'm really passionate, though, about emerging technology and digital transformation. And so I'm thinking, okay, but you don't want to be the accountant who loves numbers in your spare time, right? You want to be the accountant who also is a fly fisherman or something, right? So I think in this case, if this person has some outside interest, they do mention that they started a nonprofit several years ago, but that they had to close it because I guess it wasn't working. So I think if I were them, in addition to kind of working on getting their applications going and all the things they need to do to apply, I would probably try to think of something that they've done in the past. Or maybe they have some hobbies or things they can maybe formalize by activity with a local club group or something because that will add some color. Because you're right, otherwise they do risk being viewed as, okay, Indian engineer, working in tech. And so for that, I would say, though, well apply in the first round. Numbers are pretty great overall. And yeah, just make sure that it's clear why you need that degree because it'll be the fourth.
But, yeah, overall there's a lot to like here. I don't want them to fade into the background as they kind of might be overrepresented and stuff.
[00:24:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, they've got quite a few programs on their list. Graham a mix of Top 16 M Seven as well as London Business School overseas. What do you think of their target schools?
[00:25:06] Speaker A: I mean, I like all these schools and I think there is a bit of a range here. When you think of like you said, there's some top 16, there's some M seven and international. The only thing I would say is if they want to land in the US. I'm a little puzzled now. Maybe they would say, oh no, I'd be happy also to go work in the UK or Europe doing consulting after business school, because that's the part that doesn't stick quite for me. But maybe they have a plan. Like maybe they're like, oh no, if I went to Lbs, I would stay and work in the UK or something, I don't know.
So, yeah, they could probably think more about this school selection. You're right.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: All right.
[00:25:43] Speaker C: No, very good.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: I want to thank them for sharing their details and engaging with you. I know they left you some comments and things and answered some of the questions that we had, so that was really helpful. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretaps candidate number two.
So, our second candidate this week has six schools on the target list and they're applying in round two. So they're right now in the throes of putting these apps together for Berkeley INSEAD, MIT, Sloan, Kellogg, Stern, and Chicago Booth. And this person's been working in what they describe as banking product management. They want to pivot and work in consulting or maybe tech after business school. So they have companies like Carney, Bain, BCG, McKinsey, but also Apple, Amazon, Google, and Tesla on the list. Their GMAT score is 750. Man, you're really picking the superstars this week with their test scores, Alex. And their GPA is they list 71.6. So I'm assuming that's out of 100, they actually are from Azerbaijan. So I presume the degree was probably earned in Azerbaijan and they must use 100 type scale. I'm also going to go out on a limb and guess that they don't have the kind of grade inflation that we sometimes see in the US market. So I don't really know. We should probably ask this person, like, where did that 71.6 land you from an average standpoint in terms of your class? But let's assume it's okay. They have six years of work experience and they want to come and work in the United States after business school. And they did mention that they're applying to all these schools in Round two.
They want to do consulting in the short term and then maybe entrepreneurship or tech and stuff. So they also did add that they've done some community leadership activity during and after COVID to enrich the accessibility of education to children in rural areas. So, again, this person is in Azerbaijan, so presumably that's where they're doing that. So, Alexa, what do you make of this candidate? Because we don't see candidates from Azerbaijan every week on the show.
[00:27:49] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. No, brilliant. I do love that extracurricular activity that you just mentioned, and it's just a good example of how that sort of helps set someone apart from simply being the worker that's got a strong academic profile, right. And at the very top schools, oftentimes it's what sets someone apart that becomes very, somewhat differentiating when you're really identifying the very best candidates.
I love this profile overall. I mean, obviously we don't know much about their particular work experience.
So if it's in fintech banking, product management, what is the banking infrastructure like in Azerbaijan? How have they gotten involved in that? I assume that they've done some really interesting things, and if that is. The case and they can really show strong impact and growth at work that complements lots of other seemingly attractive things like a 750 GMAT.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: As you mentioned, we don't really know the rigor of the GPA, but let's assume that's good too, because if you got a 750 GMAT, you must be pretty smart, so that's really good.
Their goals make sense to me inasmuch as they want to pursue consulting in the short run, and we often see that with candidates. Just gives them broader exposure to different industries and so on and so forth. Love that they mentioned that they actually want to do entrepreneurship in the long run. And to me, that's really critical to this candidacy in terms of the success of this candidate or not. Because I'd like to know more about this entrepreneurship. And is it back in Azerbaijan if they're planning to return after a few years consulting in the US. To Azerbaijan to set up something that's going to have significant impact and they're sort of ticking all the boxes to prepare them for doing that along the way by going to business school in the United States, et cetera, et cetera. I think that really elevates the whole candidacy, because their opportunity to make an impact in Azerbaijan as an Alum is going to be, in my book anyway, higher in terms of their accessibility to make that impact than it would be in the United States, where there's lots of other people wanting to make impact in the United States. So, yeah, if their entrepreneurship sends them back to Azerbaijan. Graham I think this is a really interesting profile overall.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it also just helps to underline their background, right? So it'll be really front and center for the admissions reader. And as we said, we don't get candidates from Azerbaijan that often, and I think the schools are in the same boat in that regard. I think my hope is that originally I was like, oh, that GPA could be worrisome 71.6 out of 100, but my guess is that they're probably top 20% of their class with that number, just based on my experience, if that's the case, and the GMAT seems to kind of support that argument, that, wow, this person's probably pretty bright. 750 is not a score you see every day. So in any event, I agree, I think this person could do quite well. I am a little nervous that they're putting it all together right now for round two, but they have some time. The deadlines are early, Jan, so I think it could happen for them and they just need to get it all together and yeah, I mean, there's a lot to like here, as you say, and yeah, I think this person's going to find success. What do you think? Again, question you asked me before they want to land in the US. Does it still make sense to have INSEAD on the list?
[00:31:38] Speaker C: Not really.
But, I mean, again, it's back to your point. Maybe they're sort of hedging in Europe is a good option for them, too, right?
[00:31:47] Speaker A: That's my suspicion is that they could work kind of anywhere in Europe or Asia with an NCID degree, too, right? Yeah. So in any event, we'll see where they land, but best of luck to them, and I do appreciate them. Also responding. Sometimes you leave questions or you kind of comment on these entries. And I don't know if everyone knows they can go and comment or not, but sometimes some people comment, some don't. So it's great this person wrote back to give you a little bit of more color. So best of luck to them. Hopefully, they'll keep us posted and they can even join us on our webinar later today to talk more. All right, let's move on and talk about Wiretaps candidate number three.
So this third candidate is also, it looks like, considering 2025, but they have an even bigger dilemma in terms of not just the year, but what type of program. So part time versus full time. So this candidate has been working in healthcare. They want to pivot into consulting or maybe technology. They currently have a 317 on the GRE and are on the fence about whether or not to retake that. Their undergraduate GPA was a 3.75, and they have five years of work experience. They're located in New York, but they want to land on the West Coast after business school. And they say that for now, it's really just part time programs only. So they've got Berkeley, Haas, Chicago, Booth, and UCLA Anderson as the targets. And I know I think you had inquired, well, how did you pick those? And it turns out that this person found that those three programs treat their part timers quite well in the career services domain and give them access to kind know all the tools and things that you would need to pivot and shift.
You know, then you were like, well, you want to be in California, Berkeley, and UCLA. Make sense. Why is Booth on the list? And the person responded and said that they, I think, went to undergrad in the Midwest and have some roots there. So that was the kind of school selection process for them. Again, they have that 317 on the GRE, a 159 on the Quant, and a 158 on the Verbal. Their GPA was from a Big Ten state school, so top 40 school in the US. And they do mention that they're currently working in marketing at a Fortune 25 healthcare company. And they've had two promotions. They also had worked in marketing at a top global beauty company.
And they're thinking post MB about health tech in general, or maybe consulting, as I said. So, yeah, Alex, this is interesting in that we could profile this person and talk about their credentials, but they get into it in the comments about they've had this internal dilemma about part time versus full time, and they seem quite nervous about leaving the workforce for two years, spending all that money, et cetera. So, yeah, what's your advice here? Because it's an interesting case.
[00:34:38] Speaker C: I think it needs to be made quite clear and I think you can do a better job of this than me. The difference between a full time experience and a part time experience, what you're sort of setting yourself up for, because the part time experience yeah, it allows you to continue to work. So the opportunity costs are much lower, the risk is much lower.
But I also get the sense, or my understanding would be that the part time option is much less immersive. I mean, you're basically juggling family life, work life and school.
And school tends to be either on the nighttime or at the weekend or whatever it might be to make it all work.
It's typically going to take you longer to graduate, I would imagine. The graduation rate is lower than full time programs. I know that from my own experience on the part time side. So they are two very different options, I think, in that regard.
And I do think if you're really wanting to use career services and making a switch, whilst these part time programs might help facilitate that, more relative to other part time programs, nothing matches the full time experience with club activity and various other things as well as career services to allow you to transition the internship, et cetera, et cetera.
I just wanted to make it very clear there's a distinct difference between part time and full time in those regards. And I would say to this candidate, retake the GRE, go all in and really obviously try to get your best score.
And if they get a score in those mid 320s, then apply to some full time top programs too, and then weigh up the options later in terms of whether full time or part time makes the best sense. They're not applying till next season. So they got some time to sort of identify, let's say, these three programs as part time options, then identify three or four programs as full time options.
When they get around to applying, if they come back with that. Sort of competitive GRE score because that might then put them in the running for some scholarship, which would help defray some of the risk and so on and so forth. But they might be a great candidate for a top full time program.
[00:37:20] Speaker A: Graham yeah, that's the thing that was really sticking with me is, yeah, there seems to be a reasonable concern about, well, this is going to cost a lot, I'm going to be out of the workforce for two years and I get that. But when I look at the fact that they only have five years of experience, which puts them directly in the kind of full time, traditional kind of MBA pipeline. But I also was like, wow, this person's clearly smart. Three seven, five GPA from a top 40 US university.
If they were to really work on the GRE, which as you point out, they maybe have some time to do, they could probably boost that score substantially. I mean, if they just even just took a class or whatever they need to do to kind of boost that score. And then what happens is, and here I'm going to go out on a limb because I'm not certain of this, but the fact that they worked in marketing what is it? They worked in marketing at a top global beauty company makes me wonder if maybe this is even a female candidate. And we don't know for sure because I don't think we have any they didn't say. But if this were a female candidate, let's imagine 325 GRE, three seven, five GPA, five or so years of experience in marketing, pretty clear set of career goals. I love the health tech idea because it's sort of a blend of something that she's done a bit of with healthcare or if this is a woman and then heading off in that direction. But on the Tech side of it, there's a lot to like here. And suddenly I could not only see this person getting in to some full time programs, but getting in with, like, half tuition scholarships, because we see that occurring all the time and we know that gosh the applicant pool.
It still remains heavily male versus female. But the schools have been gradually inching up and getting closer and closer to parity with their classes that they admit. So there's still really good ODS for women applying and schools use money pretty generously, especially top schools. So I don't know, I just wanted that to sort of plant that seed. I don't want to go kind of beat a dead horse here, but you're absolutely right about this notion that a full time program is a really different like, I'm like, what? I don't even know how many years out from graduating from Wharton at this point, but I still remember it and the friendships I forged and the clubs I was a part of and the campus activities. And it really is a kind of immersive transformational experience. And I think it's hard to get that when you're sort of commuting into a kind of part time program. You've got work, you've got life, and this is just like an activity you're engaging in a few times a week. It's very different.
[00:40:04] Speaker C: Part time is great if you're just looking for the knowledge. You're still going to get that knowledge from the classroom. You're going to be taught by the same great professors, doing the same sort of academics and stuff, but the full time program just offers so much more.
[00:40:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. So in any event, I think we've made our case here, but obviously this person could probably get into some of these part time programs might be on the younger side for some of them, but that depends. They vary.
[00:40:31] Speaker C: They do improv too. So we're not only they also have this sort of other interest that schools love that stuff.
[00:40:40] Speaker A: Yes. And they do improv comedy and stuff or whatever. Maybe it just I don't know if it's comedy, but it's improv. And that's a great skill set. What's cool about that is it's an artsy thing to do, but it's very relevant to kind of being a great business leader if you're doing public speaking. And so, anyway, I think there's a lot to like here, potentially, if they know, make some changes on the test score. But anyway, Alex, I really appreciate you picking out all these candidates this week. Some interesting topics from Azerbaijan to improv, right? Yeah. So in any event yeah, we'll do it all again next week. Remember, folks, if you're listening on Monday morning, come and hang out with Alex and I for our December 4 noon Eastern webinar and otherwise. Alex, I'll see you in one week's. Time for another episode of the podcast.
[00:41:24] Speaker C: Brilliant. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.
