Episode Transcript
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Welcome to the clear admit MBA admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and you are about to hear a mini episode of the show that is part of a series of Admissions director interviews I conducted at the annual GMAT conference, which took place in New Orleans this year. The GMAC conference brings together admissions directors and other admissions professionals from leading business schools across the globe. So, obviously, it's a great opportunity for folks like me to kind of get. Get their attention and talk with admissions directors and get all the latest on anything going on with the application process. So I sat down with admissions directors from a number of schools, and I asked them questions about how their team looks at artificial intelligence and its use in the application process. We talked about video in the application process. A lot of schools using kind of video interviews, online things these days, and also just general trends in the applicant pool and some other just admissions tips that they wanted to offer our audience. These are short, they're ten minutes long. And I just had a lot of fun connecting with these admissions directors, many of whom are friends I've known for 20 years now working in this industry. So please sit back and enjoy. And I will say, pardon the background noise. I mean, these are kind of man on the street type interviews. I was grabbing admissions directors right and left and taking them to the lobby of the hotel to kind of have a quick conversation. So you'll hear, you know, things rattling around in the background, whatever, but just enjoy. And, yeah, a lot of great advice. So these are must listen if you're applying to any of these schools.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: This is Graham live from the GMAT conference, and I've just found and managed to corral Emily Bryerly from Cambridge Judge. And, Emily, I just had a couple of questions for you. First of all, thanks for doing this, because I know there are million other things you could be doing while you're at the GMAC conference. So thanks for making a little bit of time. What's your title?
[00:01:57] Speaker C: So, I am head of MBA admissions and recruitment at Cambridges Business School. And that's for the full time MBA.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Yeah. So the best person to talk to.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Since our show always focuses pretty much on, you know, kind of full time MBA. So this is perfect.
First question for you. Does judge have a point of view on AI and AI tools, as, you know, in the application process? So, like, candidates are dying to know, like, can they use these tools? What do you, what do you like? What's your take on that?
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Yeah, so, I mean, obviously a very hot topic, AI, and I think really interesting. I think it would be quite short sighted of schools not to recognize that students are going to use it. And this is the whole point about AI, right? It's a tool, it's a useful tool, but it should be used to complement everything. So basically our kind of outlook is that we are aware that students may want to use chat GPT, but it shouldn't be the only tool that you use. You know, we want to hear the students ideas, their experiences. They need to be drawing on personal experiences. So if they're using chat GPT or, you know, whatever, yeah, it's fine to kind of maybe like edit it, refine it to get some ideas, to maybe to put your thoughts together. That's not a problem at all. You shouldn't just be asking it to write the entire thing because A, it's really obvious spot when an entire essay has been written by ChatgbT and B, it's also good practice to get you into an academic frame of mind. You know, when you start an MBA, you're going to be returning to studies. You know, you're going to be writing essays and researching and reading things. And actually that's really good practice to get back into. So we are aware that students will use it. You wouldn't be penalized for using it, but I would just say be really like, be intentional with it and be conscious of how you use it.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: And I think it's great. You're reminding the fact, like, I feel like sometimes we talk too little about the academic experience. You know, there's so much talk about like career goals and career outcomes and, you know, what kind of salaries people are going to have after an MBA, but it is, you know, you're going to study and so you're making a really great point about, you know, writing your own materials is probably a good exercise in of itself. So, yeah, great advice and I'm glad that, you know, also just the fact that you're acknowledging that people, you know, these tools are out there, people are using them, but it's like, sort of use them wisely.
[00:04:08] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think there's something to be said. So one thing I always hate in candidates, which I think is just, I just think it's really precious actually, is that they really enjoy the reflective time and the reflective experience. Like writing MBA applications, thinking about everything they've done up until now and where they're going next is like a really wonderful exercise to kind of take stock. And if you're just using AI or chat GPT and getting it to do that, you're not getting that time to reflect and to think. And I think, you know, that's such a valuable opportunity because we're all so busy. How often do we get to do that?
[00:04:36] Speaker B: I totally agree. All right, next question is also about the admissions process. But do you guys have a video component in your admissions process? So are people, do they have to record a video or do you use video at all in the process or.
[00:04:50] Speaker C: No, so we do, but not in the application process. So they're still very essays are still essay based. What we use it for is we use it for our scholarships, not all of them, but some of them, particularly ones that have, like, a specific link, so that forte ones, for example, or with rhomba for the LGBTQ community. And so some of our scholarships have a video assessment, and that's really to kind of dive deeper into those areas, you know? So if you're applying for forte, what initiative have you done in those areas? You know, how have you developed and uplifted women either in your community or in your company? And how are you going to continue that through the MBA program and beyond? So we do use them for the scholarships. We're looking for ambassadors of the program, and I feel as though you can get.
Video allows students to get their enthusiasm and their passion through. You can really see it in a video compared to a written component. So that's how we use the videos for the scholarships.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Okay, that's good to know. And then your regular interview process is by invitation. And those are done in person or virtual or in terms of admissions interviews?
[00:05:55] Speaker C: Both. So we offer in person for all four rounds. We're going to switch it to four rounds next year, not five. And you can do virtual or if you're in a position to do so, do come on campus. There'll be a whole, you know, celebration around it. There'll be a college dinner. You know, you'll get to meet careers. So we do make a real big event of it. Something that's interesting for Cambridge is our faculty interview. So that's a Cambridge rule that everyone that studies has to be interviewed by faculty 30 minutes. And I think there's something really, you know, really special about being interviewed by someone who might teach you on the program.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. And very. And not so common. Like, if you think about other top programs, there are only a couple that I can think of that you. That involve faculty in the interview. So very interesting.
I would recommend people go to campus if they can, because you have such a. I mean, the building that you guys have is really cool, architecturally. And just, yeah, what a beautiful town. I mean, yeah, Cambridge is great. All right, so last question. Have you been able to ascertain any choices, shifts in the candidate pool in terms of, like, what they're telling you.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: They'Re interested in doing?
[00:06:59] Speaker B: So, you know, are they talking more about certain industries or roles? Like, you've been doing this job for a little bit of time, and so have you seen anything of late that's shifting or still sort of the same?
[00:07:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I think this is really interesting. So I've definitely seen a shift in what we're seeing in applications, and that's a really important distinction. I'll say why in a moment. So I started at judge about five, six years ago, and I've definitely seen a shift. There's a lot more interest in sustainability and CSR in, you know, that kind of area, obviously, tech AI. I mean, Cambridge has always been kind of. We're very strong in tech, so we've already always seen a lot of that. But, you know, this focus on AI and implementing that. But I don't think that that's translating into career shifts. And I. And so there's. What I'm seeing other people might see different is there's actually a bit of a disconnect between what people are telling us on the application and what they actually go into. And that could be for a variety of reasons. It might be that, you know, there's just. It's, you know, the. These areas just aren't yet big enough. You know, there's not enough roles. They're all quite specialized and niche. They want people who've already got experience. So that can be difficult if you're coming without it.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:08:03] Speaker C: We are seeing a lot. Having said that, you know, there are. These roles are popping up like, you know, CSR, things like that are popping up more in, like, corporates, so they are becoming more common. So I would. It'd be interesting to see how that develops over the next few years. But I also think it's like, just be aware. Like, I think there's something to be said about the salaries of these jobs as well. So, you know, I think perhaps there's not an awareness that actually they might not pay as, you know, as well as consulting or finance. And if you're coming from those roles and, you know, you have a loan to pay your MBA off, it's completely understandable that you would.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: That you would then need to kind of. You might go back into a role that pays well. So I think there are these roles and I think. I think they're looking for passionate people, and it is the passionate people who would be happy to take that salary sacrifice and to pursue those careers.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: And I wonder if you're going to see it more down the road, like, in the sense of, like, people's, maybe not their first job, but if they're expressing this interest when they apply for sustainability or fintech or whatever it might be, maybe it's. Yeah, maybe they go and do consulting, but then maybe you may see, like, alums when they're five years out, they then are maybe digging into these areas or something when they have that flexibility.
[00:09:12] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: So that's possible.
[00:09:14] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And I also think there's some ways of, like, kind of merging it. So you might go into, like, a corporate, but actually you might go into a corporate that, you know, is doing a lot in this area. You know, he's kind of like a conscious company. Yeah. And that, you know, you know, that you, you know, you want to work because you're aware that their CSR is great or whatever.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:30] Speaker C: So there's also, you know, these kind of, you know, there are other ways. And I absolutely agree. I think the longer term, we will, you know, later down the line once, you know, they've kind of, you know, had a few years, you know, kind of paid off the MBA loan or whatever, then, you know, you'll follow those passion projects.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: That makes sense. I don't want to keep you any longer because I know there's a lot happening here at the conference, but I do appreciate you just taking these few minutes to talk with us and, yeah, just having on the show, and as I said before we came on air, we'll get you to do a proper podcast with us with, like, where we can ask you all kinds of questions about the admissions process at Cambridge Judge. And, yeah, we always have fun with those. So please come back if you can.
[00:10:06] Speaker C: Yeah, great. I'd love to. Thank you very much, Graham.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: All right, sounds good.
