[00:00:14] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your wiretaps for Monday, December 11, 2023.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: For more than 100 years, Emory University's Guiseueta Business School has been a training ground for principal leaders and a laboratory for powerful insights. Whether you're looking to accelerate your career or make a career pivot, Emory's one year and two year full time MBA programs prepare you for a lifetime of career confidence. Learn more about Emory's top 20 MBA with top five career outcomes offering world class academics and small by design classes delivered in a dynamic global city. More At Emory Biz Slash Clearadmit, I'm.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: Joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
[00:01:03] Speaker C: Very good, thank you, Graham.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Man, I need a break. After all the chaos that ensued last week on the Wires, on our even the list of schools is long and the number of posts and comments and questions we were getting on the site, it was just pretty insane. So is there anything left? Like are we done or is there more this week?
[00:01:21] Speaker C: Yeah, no, there's more this week.
Wharton is the big player this week. KELlogg, that'll be a big deal this week, too. Side Sloan is another one. So that's three big hitters out of the M seven right there. And yeah, McCombs, Anderson, Keenan, Flagler, Foster amongst the others that are releasing decisions this upcoming week. So these last week, this week are two huge weeks. I mean, last week we saw Harvard, Stamford, we saw Tuck, we saw McDonough, Darden, Goyzer, Tepper, Yale. I mean, the list goes on and on. Fuqua, Ross, Johnson.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good thing we rebuilt the website over the.
It's been, it's been great to see all that traffic. And yeah, everyone's kind of enjoying using the wires to share their news for once. We have no events this week, which is great. It's been a little while. We will have some events coming up in late January. We'll get back into the swing of things. We're doing a real humans event where we'll gather some students. So I don't have any more details on that yet, but that's forthcoming late January and then stay tuned. We tend to do events in the winter months as well. We did run a really good admission sip that hopefully applies to no one that is tuned in, but it's called dealing with round one rejection. And so if you are in that boat where you didn't get good news out of a school last week or this week or any of your round one applications, there's some really good advice in there about how to kind of assess and reboot and move forward. Right. So we have some good advice there that you should read on the site. We also caught up with our good friend Bruce Delmonico from Yale School of Management to do an admissions director Q A on the website, and I wanted to share something he said. Now, we asked them lots of questions. This is kind of a formula. Like, each admissions director at all the top schools fill out all these answers to questions that we have. And one of the questions is about writing essays. And since some of our listeners are probably working on their round two application essays, you'll remember Yale has a pick one of three choices kind of essay. So I just wanted to share what Bruce said because I thought he gave some really good advice. He said, Regardless of what topic you choose, the most important aspect of the essay to us is that you describe in detail the behaviors that demonstrate support for that topic. We care most about how you've approached this thing that matters deeply to you. Remember, the goal is not to stand out or be unique. The goal is to be genuine and sincere. We find that the most compelling essays are the ones that share what is truly most important to you. So use that as your guide in choosing what to write about. Don't try to guess what we're looking for or what you think we want to hear. And then he says, I would also note that you do not need to connect your essay to the MBA degree. You don't need to explain how the topic you choose supports why you want to get an MBA, either in general or at Yale. We ask those questions elsewhere in the applications process, so don't spend your limited words on those areas here. And of course, as always, remember to Proofread, and there's an exclamation point at the end of that proofread. So, Alex, what do you make of Bruce's comments?
[00:04:42] Speaker C: Fantastic. Yeah, we know he's been in the industry lots and lots of years, a really strong advocate for the degree, for Yale. And, yeah, his advice, I think, is outstanding.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah, he is a terrific guy. One of my favorites in this. I mean, there's so many great people working in this industry, but I've known Bruce for many, many years. We've been to a couple of ball games together, so now he's great. And this was terrific advice, and I was really happy that he took the time in the middle of know, round one stuff to write this up for our site. So that was great.
[00:05:16] Speaker C: Of course, I taught him everything GraHAm yeah, that's right.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: He was in your training. I remember he used to do training for GMAC, teaching new admissions officers. I forgot.
[00:05:25] Speaker C: I think he skipped my class. That's why he's doing very well.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: The other thing I wanted to mention is there's just been a lot of stuff on the site, so I'm going to kind of zip through. But we did catch up with six students at Esse Business School in Barcelona. So that's part of our Real Humans series, so you can read about that. And we did the same thing at Vanderbilt, Owen. So if you're applying to either of those schools, obviously go read those. Columbia Business School published their class profile for the class that's already. Now, about halfway into their first year, there are 900 students that they admitted across their J term and traditional August start date, which is actually a bit more than the number of students they had last year at 844. So they actually grew the size of their student body. With that said, application volume was down, so they were down 5%. Overall. They had 5895 applications, 3.5 GPA, 730 GMAT. So no big news there. Those are the kinds of numbers we see at very top schools. The GMAT range for the entire class was 610 to 790. But I thought this was kind of interesting. The middle 80% was 700 to 760.
So 10% are above 760 and 10% are below 700. So that tells you a little bit about the level of competition. They did not share any of their GRE statistics. I thought that was a little bit OD, but I didn't see anything on that. So other than that. 44% women, 47% international. The women is kind of unchanged. International actually came down a little bit from 51% last year. So that's kind of Columbia's current student body for their. I guess it's. What is that? The class of 25? Right. So, any thoughts, Alex?
[00:07:07] Speaker C: No, I mean, it sounds like they've done very well, especially as we know last season application volumes were down. We're not hearing the same for this season, just so we want to be clear on that.
But, yeah, no, this sounds very good on the part of Columbia. I mean, it doesn't surprise me that international student numbers are quite high, but it also doesn't surprise me that they're nearly at gender parity, because New York presents really sort of good opportunities for both genders, but also those that are going to business school with partners, because obviously there's plenty of opportunity for work and partner activity in New York City.
These numbers don't surprise me. At all.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah. One thing I want to mention is, so they were down 5% last year in application volume, and I'm seeing all these articles on some of the big media outlets, whether it's Business Week or PNQ, there's these articles that have been coming out about people are in panic. The MBA application volume is down, and it was down last year. Right. And there's also another article about how so many admissions directors have left their posts. I saw that recently. I think it was in Business Week or one of the big periodicals. And I'm thinking, wow, it's kind of old news.
We're already in the new season. Volume is up for most of the schools I'm talking to. So I feel like it's just a little strange to be talking about stuff that happened. Like, I mean, in some cases, people who are leaving, like directors admissions at Harvard or Stanford, they know this is like over a year ago in any event.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: But some of the news we are hearing, that is current news, is the tech layoffs and the issues relating to consulting. So, on the employment report end, that has a lot more currency.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And actually, that's a perfect segue, because.
[00:09:00] Speaker C: I knew that, Graham, I figured you.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Were teeing it up. We reviewed employment reports from Harvard, Stanford, and Tuck on the website. So what we do is we take the school's employment report, we kind of break it down, try to go apples to apples, so that if you read one of our articles on this, you can look at all of them and see we're always looking at the same facts and figures. And luckily, for the most part, schools are consistent about how they report on this stuff. So, Harvard, $175,000 starting salary, very consistent with what we've seen from the other top schools. 73% of their graduating class was looking for work. That's a lower figure than you see at some other programs. And that's because the rest of that group are either sponsored or they're starting their own company. And you see a little bit more of that at places like Harvard and Stanford, which I'll talk about in a moment. In terms of where Harvard grads were going, 35% went into financial services, including private equity, venture capital, investment banking, 25% into consulting. They sent 16% into tech. That's actually down from 19%.
So that was the main thing. It was just a little bit of a tick down in tech. For Harvard. In terms of the regional placement, 54% of the graduating class stayed in the Northeast. That's up from 47% last year. 16% went out west that's down. It was 24% last year. So we're seeing this shift kind of back to the East Coast a little bit and down. As you said, tech is a little bit lower, but otherwise, pretty amazing starting salary. And a lot of folks graduating from HBS are starting their own companies, too, so that's kind of cool.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: Very Good.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: So with Stanford, I'll GIVe you the SaMe FACts and FiGURes. We've got a starting salary of 189,062% of their graduating class were looking for work. That's usUally. They're almost always the low for all the top schools. That's a low number, right. It's only 62% looking for jobs. 25% of the graduating class are doing a startup. Okay. SO that is a big numBer. And then in terms of those who are heading off into industry, taking the more traditional jobs and stuff, 38% went into finance, that's up from 33%.
24% went into tech, that's down from 30%, and then 15% into consulting. Just interesting to me. I'll kind of wait for your comments on this, but interesting to me that we have some schools, Yale, the list is long, that are sending, like, 40 plus percent into consulting. But here at Stanford, it's only 15%. So that's kind of Noteworthy. 50% of StAnFord grads stayed on the West Coast. That's down from 58%. And 31% went to the northeast, and that's up from 26% last year. SO what do you think of the StAnForD numBers?
[00:11:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I'll look at both those, Harvard and Stanford together, because they are very interesting and they are different to the numbers we see for most of the rest of the M seven and top 16.
Inasmuch as the largest employer is financial services in terms of industry, that's typically on the buy side for these programs versus the rest of the others in the M seven and top 16 is more. When they talk about financial services, you're talking more about investment banking. So we need to make sure we're clear in distinction there. Consulting is definitely significantly lower for these two programs than it is, again, for the majority of the M seven and top 16, which are generally ranging between 35 and sort of 45%.
And as we know, we're a bit suspicious in terms of when those consultants are actually starting Their work and so on and so Forth. Right. So these numbers are really interesting.
Probably we should compare them directly to Wharton, too, to see how they play out. But they are DiffErent to the rest of the M seven and top 16. I was a little surprised at Harvard's average or median salary at 175. That's no different to other programs in the M Seven group. At least Stanford's makes more sense to me at 189. But yes, only 62% looking for jobs and 73% at Harvard. Those are relative to all the other programs, which generally hover in the 90%.
Very interesting. I mean, lots of entrepreneurs in those groups and so forth.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I think what's happening is that there's just not enough consulting jobs to push up the average. In the case of Stanford, though, there probably are some pretty big fancy VC jobs or even tech jobs that are paying really high to grab the cherry, pick some of the best candidates out of Stanford that are raising that average. But, yeah, it's interesting. The last one I'll give you for contrast is Tuck. Okay, so Tuck, $175,000 starting salary. So very, exactly like HBS, right? A little bit less than Stanford's. 189, but still pretty darn good. But the difference here is that 88% of Tuck's graduating class were looking for work. And remember, only 62% were looking for work at Stanford. So a little bit of a difference there. 3% of Tuck grads are starting their own company. So again, 25% at Stanford, 3% at Tuck. In terms of consulting, 46% of Tuck's graduating class who are looking for work went into consulting. That's actually down 1% from 47 last year. 23% went into finance, that's up from 20. And let's see, 14% went into tech. That's actually up from eleven. So this is the first school that I've seen growing the tech percentage, which is pretty impressive for Tuck in terms of where Tuck graduates land. 53% landed in the Northeast. That's down from 59% last year. 14% went out west, that's up from 12%. And then 10% went to the Midwest. And the other regions are kind of unchanged at small amounts.
[00:15:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: So I don't know, I thought it was kind of interesting that Tuck, great starting salary, obviously impressive number of candidates going into consulting. But I thought it was kind of cool that they grew their tech portion and they sent a little bit more people to the West Coast. And that's like bucking the trend here for all these other schools.
[00:15:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, like you say, they bucked the trend a little bit. Their starting salary actually, I think falls in line with their peer set. It's more surprising to me that Harvard's is at 175 two, but yeah, they align with their peer set in terms of 46% going to consulting, which is significantly higher. Again, than Harvard and Stanford, and only 23% going into financial services, which again would be predominantly investment banking in this case, which again would align more with their peer set. But yeah, they bought the trend on tech and also that geography. And obviously tech sort of correlates very much with geography. Right? So if you've got a higher tech number, you're going to have higher California number.
These are great numbers from all three programs. Just super interesting how Harvard and Stanford is.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Yeah, very, very fascinating. And we have a whole series of content on the site that compares schools head to head and all these different categories from industry to region. That's a whole series. We're actually updating that for this year now that we've begun to get a critical mass of data in from these schools. So you can read all that on our site. Alex, the last thing I'm going to say is just what Alex and I would love for Christmas. If you're tuning in, would be reviews of our podcast or ratings of our. Also, I just learned you can leave comments on our podcast in Spotify. So each episode allows you to actually leave comments, which I didn't even know about. So while you can't write a review on Spotify, you can leave comments and I'll try to keep an eye on those. If people have questions, you can always write to Alex and I at
[email protected] use the subject line wiretaps. We are accepting seasons Greetings cards via email that I'll share with the team. So if you have anything you want to share with anyone at Clearadmit, just send us a note. We're always happy to get listener mail. Alex, anything else before we dive into this week's candidates?
[00:17:20] Speaker C: No? Let's kick on.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one.
So our first candidate this week is applying to four schools, Columbia, Dartmouth, Emory, and Yale. They want to start school next fall, and I believe they're applying in round two. They've been working at education and nonprofits for their career, which spans seven years to date. They want to get into or kind of stay in nonprofit or social impact. After business school, they have a 3.4 GPA from a well known private women's college for Undergrad, and they also have a master's in public policy from an Ivy League school with a 3.7 GPA. Now, their GRE score is a 305. And they actually say in the comments, my GRE is low. I know that. But I did apply to all the top policy programs and got into those schools with scholarship, presumably on that same score. So, pointing that out, let's see the other kind of details. There's a really great note. This person had provided us with a lot of kind of background detail, but they are nontraditional in that background. In education and nonprofit, they serve in a leadership capacity. They oversee a team that directly impacts hundreds of educators and thousands of students across the country. This is a first generation black woman, and she applied, I guess, through the consortium, and so she's waiting still to hear back. So I guess she's already applied. And so it's not really round two, it's via the consortium. And she's hoping to kind of transition into DEI talent, work and education, and kind of leaned into the personal aspects of how that work affects her as a diverse candidate who works currently in education leadership. So, Alex, I know you had kind of an exchange with this candidate, particularly about the GRE score and stuff, but, yeah, what do you make? I mean, this is kind of a really interesting, nontraditional candidate with one kind of potentially glaring weakness in the.
[00:19:24] Speaker C: I mean, she even calls this GRE score, that shit old score and my very subpar GRE. So she clearly knows that this is by far the weakest element of her overall profile, which, frankly, looks really super strong and interesting.
So, in my mind, I don't think we need to spend a whole lot of time on this candidate. It's like they could retake the GRE or they could choose not to, and they might still get admitted to these programs with this GRE score. I mean, they might represent that 1% outlier at the low end of the range. That because everything else is super strong, they gain admission and they've got interview invites to all the schools they applied, which includes at least one M seven, because that's Columbia.
So schools are clearly interested in this candidate, but I know that they're going to be really sort of edgy about a 305 GRE, which I'm guessing the candidate took ahead of doing their public policy program.
So the GRE score itself is going to be quite old. So that's another strike against in my book, right. If you've got a low score and it's two or three years old, I. E. You didn't retake it in that ensuing time, you had plenty of time to consider retaking it and stuff. I think that's an extra potential mark against that they need to be wary of. I would really encourage this candidate to map out a plan to get the GRE retaken, and even if it's maybe they got a bit of a round two strategy as they wait for their round one results, although they should be getting those round one results this week. Next week develop a bit of a round two strategy, which may even be applied to more M seven or more top 16 and plan to retake the GRE. Now, if they can't do the due diligence in preparation in time for the deadlines for round two, I would still advise them to schedule a date later, I. E. Maybe the end of January or whatever, so they have the time to prepare well and include in their optional essay that they are planning this retake and they've got the date scheduled, et cetera, et cetera, because this will send a strong signal to any round two schools that they're targeting. But also these round ones, they might end up on the waitlist, and if they do end up on a waitlist, they have to retake that GRE Grant.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
I think it's interesting because I fully believe this person could get into some of these schools, even with a low score, because it's like the only weakness in the file and they're otherwise going to be a really sought after candidate in terms of having very nontraditional background, first generation black female. I mean, there's a lot of things that, a lot of boxes that are.
[00:22:50] Speaker C: Ticked that and been very successful. So it's not just like, all right, you've checked these boxes, therefore you're more attractive. You've checked these boxes and you've been, or what appears to be really successful in your career to date had really good impact, good leadership, et cetera.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: Yeah. The details in the post that she provided are, I mean, it's pretty stunning in terms of the leadership and all the activity. So, yeah, there's no doubt. And that's why it's like, part of me is like, so maybe she will get in.
I do worry about a waitlist scenario for the reason you described. I also kind of wonder what's the scholarship situation like and whether that's impacted again? Because if this person had come into this process, let's imagine they hadn't applied anywhere yet and they were thinking of applying and they had a 325 on the GRE. I would be saying, oh, wow, this is like Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, name your top school. And obviously they're limited. They're looking at consortium schools, and not every school is in the consortium, I guess. But, yeah. So I do feel like there's something being left on the table if they're not exploring a boost on that score. So in any event, as you said, we probably don't need to dwell on it too much. I mean, we'll see what happens. She's going to get feedback. She probably already, by the time she's listening to this, may have already had some feedback from some schools. So we'll see. I do want to wish her the best of luck, but I think, yeah, retaking the test could change things in terms of opening the door to some of the very elite schools or changing the scholarship figures that could be offered. So it's worth thinking about.
All right, so thanks to her for sharing. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two.
So our next candidate is also applying to start in the fall of 24. And this candidate has MIT, Sloan, Oxford, Stanford and Yale on the target list. Their pre MBA career has been in a role of director of human resources.
It's actually a very interesting story, which we'll get into post business school. They're thinking about entrepreneurship, and that's because their roles before business school have been entrepreneurial, which we'll explain. GPA is a 3.3. They actually have nine years of work experience and they want to land in Subsaharan, Africa after business school. That's where they are now. And so one of the interesting things about this candidate who is yet to take the test, so they're working on that, is that they are one of the key leaders responsible for launching a low cost airline in West Africa during COVID-19 as well as securing multimillion dollar investment at a critical phase in this journey. They bootstrapped the airline with some personal funds and have done a ton of stuff to get this airline off the ground. And the other wrinkle that I wanted to share is when it comes to MIT and Stanford, they're actually looking at the MSX programs. I guess it's the MSX program at Stanford and then the Sloan Fellows program at MIT. So these are kind of one year programs. And they mentioned that MIT doesn't require a test for that. They use your grades and things. So a little bit of a non traditional candidate in terms of entrepreneurship, airline industry, looking at a mix of schools, mostly of the one year variety, but not all of them. And in some cases, more of the mid career, like the Sloan Fellows program is more of a mid career program.
So, yeah, Alex, there's a lot to digest here, and I know you exchanged with this candidate and asked them about their goals, and they talked, know, not necessarily staying with the airline that they've set up. I think they said that they were thinking about doing something else, like pivoting to explore entrepreneurship or a sea level post. And they said the airline business is quite stressful and even more so in certain jurisdictions due to political instability. ET. So what do you make of this?
[00:26:47] Speaker C: There's a lot. I think you got to be very ballsy to set up a low budget airline in West Africa during COVID-19 crumbs. That's got to have been presented plenty and plenty of challenges and some great life lessons and so on and so forth. And it looks like they've done really well with what they've done. I mean, their experiences are going to be absolutely fantastic. I think.
I really like that. Yeah, it would be good if their long term goal was to turn this airline into some sort of sustainable transportation system in that region of the world, doing some really cool things or whatever it might be. So they might want to think a little bit harder about that long term goal and make sure it aligns with some of the experiences they've had to date. And we always like, or at least my personal preference, is for folks that are coming from places like Sub Saharan Africa. Their long term goal is to return to sub Saharan Africa to make that greater impact that they can make in that longer term than they would if they remained in the sort of USA or Western Europe or wherever they do their MBA. So hopefully they're targeting a long term return plan to do that.
So, yeah, I think their work experience is going to be outstanding. Graham it probably aligns well for these sort of MSX Sloan Fellows programs. And I know you talked about London offering something similar that they could also be looking at. But on the, you know, there might be some good options. They've listed Yale, for example. Maybe insead with it being a one year program might be attractive. I'm a little worried about the GMat side of it. Graham, because they've got to take the GMAT, and they even articulated that not only don't they feel prepared, so they've obviously got to figure out a preparation plan, but they don't feel the GMAT is a true reflection of individuals intellectual vitality. That doesn't matter what they feel, right? It's what the ADCOM feels. So they don't want to have that sort of attitude, I guess, is my point here. Yeah, there's lots of debate on the efficacy of these standardized tests, but lots of ADCOM will actually say it's a really good predictor and really vital to our admissions process. So all candidates should absolutely respect that. And I'm not saying this person is disrespectful, but I just want to call that out and yet do whatever they can to get their best. GMAT score is really what it boils down to. It's a little bit like our previous candidate, lots and lots of things to really love about this profile, but they're going to have to overcome this test score. Graham?
[00:29:51] Speaker A: Yeah, and I would say there's a higher risk here in the sense that with the first candidate, we have a three seven from an Ivy League public policy master's degree. Right. And I think a three five or whatever it was at a top liberal arts college. So those are known quantities to the Admissions committee. This candidate's educated probably in Western Africa. They said they have kind of a B plus average from Undergrad, but that was nine years ago or whatever. They've been working for a while. Right. So there's less kind of current evidence of academic aptitude. And we could have that debate, like you were saying, about whether the GMAT or the GrE is an apt. Is it a good measure? But I can tell you Bruce Dolmonico comes to mind because he was the one that did the Q A on our site this past week, and he happens to work at one of the schools that this candidate has on their list, Yale. And he and his team have said, look, the test is actually pretty important. It is the only way that we have to sort of measure intellectual ability across the applicant pool because everyone attends different schools, different countries, everything's different. And this is the one kind of leveling.
Yeah. And I do agree, looking at one year MBA offerings, maybe in Europe, like an mean, there are many programs out there, know IMD, ESMT. There are lots of programs where this person could probably find a spot that would be short duration and allow them to get back into the workforce. So, yeah, something to think about. And I did recommend in my comments, London Business School is also offering the Sloan Fellows program, which is for people who are a little bit older, like the MIT program. So they should probably consider that.
Yeah. I mean, a lot is going to hinge on like they got to take the test, it sounds like one way or another, and get a result and sort of plot their course from there a little bit.
[00:31:41] Speaker C: Did I tell you we got someone in our village that did that MSX program at Stone?
[00:31:46] Speaker A: Wow. You might have a while ago, but yeah, it's a good.
Again, she's super impressive individual in any person. I just feel like if I were an admissions officer, as excited as I would be about all the pretty incredible professional experiences they've had. I'd want to be assured on the academic side, and the only way that I'm going to be is really with a test. So, yeah, they need to take the test and do as well as they can on it. Yeah. I want to thank them for sharing their journey on the site. Again, really impressive to start up an airline in those conditions during a pandemic, et cetera. So very cool stuff. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three.
So our final candidate for this week is actually targeting business school for the fall of 25. So they have a little bit of time on their hands. They have seven schools that are currently on their target list, and those schools are Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Georgetown, Indiana, Michigan, Washington Foster and UCLA. Anderson, this candidate is currently a lead engineer at an OEM automotive companY. Their post target industry is tech or maybe consumer goods. They've taken the GMAT. They have a 690, and they have a 3.0 GPA from Undergrad. They've been working for five years. They're actually located in Indiana. And they share the fact that they are a white Us and Middle Eastern dual citizen.
They also mentioned that they're thinking about the automotive industry and the way that it's kind of being transformed with electric vehicles. And so they want to pivot from product engineering into product planning, and they're having trouble kind of breaking into that without an MBA or kind of a business background. So they think that given that they have an engineering background from undergrad, that going to get an MBA will be a powerful kind of combination.
They did earn that, as I said, that 30 GPA in mechanical engineering. And they've been struggling, they say, to get the GMAT past 690, they have a quant score of 44 and a verbal score of 40. And what's interesting is the verbal score is really high. I mean, in terms of the percentile, I think it's like a 98 percentile or something quite good. But the math is only in the 40th percentile. So that's where the weakness is. They've got some outside activities, some pretty good accomplishments in terms of work. But, Alex, a couple of kind of glaring things, right? 30 GPA and a six and 190 on the GMAT, which are some of the schools on their list are more kind of top 25 schools. And so maybe those numbers play better there. But what's your take on this candidate?
[00:34:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, that's one thing to consider. They're not aiming at the very, very top programs, your M seven type programs, there are a couple in the top 16 or two or three in the top 16 top 20, and just a couple outside the top 20. So their profile might fit well, assuming that they've got really strong sort of professional experience, and that's reflected with strong recommendations and so on and so forth.
Obviously, their realization of the transition of the industry to EVs is critical. So talking about their goals regarding that transition, that would be very interesting, too. I'd like to know a little bit more about what they do when they're not working. What are their hobies and interests and so forth? It seems like they do a lot at work, and they sort of, you know, not directly related to their career necessarily, but they're doing a lot of stuff at work.
So I'd like to see what they do when they've got downtime and what sort of volunteer work would be interesting.
And maybe because they're applying next season, they could ratchet that side of it up a little bit.
But as you say, the big issue potentially is the combination of a 690 GMAT with a 44 quant score and a 3.0 GPA.
That's going to create cause some pause, especially for some of the sort of top 16 programs that they've got listed, top ten programs that they've got listed. And they're going to retake the GMAT one more time, really try to get that quant score up. It's kind of unusual for an engineer to have a lower quant score like that, in terms of the percentile of that score. So do whatever they can to ratchet up the GMAT, even if it's 1020 points. They want to get the GMAT taken before the new format becomes required, which that's due to their work commitment, I think early next year, they were saying. But, yeah, anything that they can do about this GMAT is going to have pretty big impact, I think. Graham?
[00:36:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, what's cool is that their verbal score is fantastic. So if they can maintain that and just add, if they were to add, like, a handful of points to their quant, they would suddenly be well into the. Even if the Quant score remains a little weak, at least from a number side, the schools are going to say, wow, okay, this person's not dragging down or average or anything. And I do think that they can't go back and redo their mechanical engineering GPA, which is a bit low. But getting a solid test score would be like, hey, look, I went to a pretty rigorous undergrad in terms of the major I chose, they've had success at work. I agree. TheiR extracurriculars do often revolve around work, like they're doing diversity initiatives at work, things like that in their spare time. So it would be good to know more about what makes this person tick and how they're unique. But otherwise, they have good work experience, solid career goals. And some of the schools on their list, I think, would be happy to welcome them. But I do think that it'll be a lot easier if they can boost that test score. So I would buckle down. I don't know that I'd be as fearful of the new GMAt as it sounds. They're kind of wanting to just take the one that they know, I guess. But the new test is a bit easier in terms of it being shorter. You can pace yourself, go in the order that you want, but in any event, so I hope this person lands on their feet again. They do have a nice range of programs on the list, and so I think that they'll land somewhere, but it'll increase their ODs if they can boost that score.
Yeah. Just not being able to. Yeah, totally.
And I would say, as they think about that, one of the things that jumped out at me is they mentioned they're white, male, working in automotive and stuff, but they also have Middle Eastern, they're of Middle Eastern descent and they have a passport from a Middle Eastern country. And so I think that's another potential attribute or point of interest. And so to the extent that any of their outside interests or activities maybe revolve around that, that could be interesting, too, to kind of highlight, because it'll be a differentiator. So in any event, I want to wish them the best of luck and thank them for sharing their profile with us. Alex, it's been a crazy week. Next week, the days ahead are going to continue to be crazy, but we'll all deserve a good rest over the holidays, except for those of you who are going to be writing essays, I guess. But in any event, thanks, Alex, for picking these out, and we'll do it again next week.
[00:39:23] Speaker C: Very good. Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.
