Episode Transcript
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Welcome to the clear admit MBA admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, October 7, 2024. For more than 100 years, Emory University's Goisueta business school has been a training ground for principal leaders and a laboratory for powerful insights. Whether you're looking to accelerate your career or make a career pivot, Emory's one year and two year full time MBA programs prepare you for a lifetime of career confidence. Learn more about Emory's top 20 MBA with top five career outcomes offering world class academics and small by design classes delivered in a dynamic global city. More at Emory, Bizarre clear admit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: All good. Thank you, Graham.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: So are we still. Still looking at deadlines or is round one starting to wrap up? I mean, I know there's always a few that sit in the middle of October, so I guess we still have some. Some dates left, right?
[00:01:17] Speaker B: We've still got plenty of deadlines ahead of us. Obviously, last week was a big week because Harvard released those interview invites, and that's sort of the big. First big school that releases them all at one time and really sparks the activity up on Livewire and so forth. So last week was a really interesting week for admissions. For this week upcoming, we've got round one deadlines for Michigan State broad. Keenan flagler, Unc. Keenan Flagler, Vanderbilt. Owen, Georgia. Terry. Round two deadlines for side and judge. So Cambridge and Oxford for around two. We've got interview invites scheduled to roll out for London business School, Isa possibly, and I'm speculating that booth and or Ross might be hitting the headlines next week, too. This week, too, with interview invites. If not this week, it'll be the following week.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, so lots to monitor. And, yeah, it was funny. We predicted that the HBS invites could potentially be coming out after we recorded our last show. And, yeah, and lo and behold, like, literally right after we finished recording, they announced that they were coming out. They came out last Monday. So, yeah, lots of stuff happening. I do want to apologize to our listeners. We had a snafu last week that some of our listeners actually alerted us to, which was that, Alex, your audio dropped out for a little while on the episode. And, you know, and I will say that wasn't. I didn't do that on purpose. So just so you know, it wasn't. I wasn't trying to mute you. We just. We had a little glitch, and I'm really thankful that a couple. A couple of our most loyal listeners wrote us notes to say, hey, we can't hear Alex for a couple minutes in the show. So we got that remedied.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: At least. They were saying, we can't hear Alix. We should be hearing Alex. They might not have called in because they perhaps didn't want to hear Alex.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I think everyone else who, everyone else listening who didn't write in, they just thought of it as a feature, not a bug. Yeah, right. No, but anyway, so, yeah, so apologize to everyone for that. But we fixed it. If you missed that bit, you can go back and listen because we've re uploaded the show from last week, upcoming on October 16. I do want to remind everyone that we have this West Coast MBA webinar where we're going to sit down with admissions directors from Berkeley, Stanford, UC Irvine, UCLA and University of Washington foster and talk all things admissions tips, strategies, and things unique to kind of getting an MBA out on the west coast. You can sign up for that at bit ly Westcoastmba. All one word, all lowercase. So that's going to be fun. It's the first in our series of regional events, so stay tuned. There may be more news on that front. And then later in October, on the 23rd, we've got a real humans webinar, which, for those of you who don't know, is when we invite current students or recent alums from top schools to join us for Q and A. And we've got current students from Tuck, Columbia, Darden and Duke on this one. And so more news to come there, but you can actually go on the website and sign up for that. I don't have a short link to give you today, but I'll have one by next week. So, yeah, lots going on on the events front, Alex, it should be fun.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Those real humans events are really interesting, I think, with the students and stuff, and obviously the west coast events. First time we tried something like this. So, like you say, maybe we'll do something for Texas, maybe for New York, maybe maybe Europe. Right? So quite an interesting concept.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: Yeah, should be fun. So, speaking of real humans, I did want to mention that we continue to roll out these pieces about all the top schools. We did Carnegie Mellon, Duke, and Ohio State over the last week alone. And this is where we sit down with like six different students and produce an article with interviews of each of the students, and they get to kind of share their story of why are they at that program? What are they doing? And I wanted to share a couple of quotes. Alex, we caught up with Olivia who's currently a student at Carnegie Mellon Tepper. She's originally from Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, went to RPI, did mechanical engineering and design and innovation studies as an undergrad. And we always asked for advice, like, what would you tell a candidate? And she says, apply earlier. If I could do one thing differently, it would be to submit my application sooner. I applied for round three due to other commitments, and while it didn't significantly impact my experience, I did miss out on the welcome weekend that took place a month prior to my application decision. And from what I've heard, this event was a fantastic opportunity to connect with current and prospective students and explore the campus. So, Alex, there you have it. Don't wait for the last round. Not only do you maybe have diminished odds of getting in, but you might miss out on some of the social things that the school does to connect an incoming class before matriculation.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Makes perfect sense. I just. I'm quite curious, though, Graham, how did you pronounce where she's from? I would have said Shrewsbury.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: Oh, really? Well, it's s h r e w. I know.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: I went to school in Shrewsbury in the UK five years.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: Okay, so maybe. Well, I don't. I'm definitely no expert on Massachusetts geography either, so I don't know. But I was pronouncing it with my american, you know, kind of Bentley. Now, this is. Man, you just teed up this segue. We talked to Elliot, who went to Duke, and he is from. I'm going to probably mispronounce this one, Surrey, England. Is that the way you say that?
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Surrey?
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah, Surrey. Okay. He is a british army officer in the medical services. He did like nine years of that before coming to Duke's fuqua MBA program. And we asked him for what kind of advice he would have if you were applying to business school. And he said, I would reach out to as many current students from affiliate clubs or professional clubs and heard their stories. I relied extensively on veterans clubs of various schools, and I loved hearing all their journeys and advice. It gave me a real and candid feel for the school and helped shape my applications and school choices. There's a real pay it forward attitude with current students, and they're always happy to help. So that sounds like good advice, Alex.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: No, brilliant advice. And that's something I think we try to push as much as we can, but if we're talking about pronunciation, Graham and I haven't brought this up for a long, long time, but how do you pronounce that business school at Duke?
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Oh, you've brought that up. Yeah. Fuqua.
And you always say, right, you told me that they told you it's few qualify, right, Fuqua?
[00:07:52] Speaker B: Very good.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. Yeah. So we've got that.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: I say, they told me that about 25 years ago, so maybe they're not still pushing that.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Well, I mentioned it to. I mentioned it to Sherry when we had her on the show for a little brief podcast when I was at the GMAC conference. And she said, well, you know, we don't want to make it sound like not everyone can, you know, should apply or something, because if it sounds, like, overly competitive to get in, maybe that scares people off. But in any event. Yeah. So finally, the last real humans piece I wanted to share a quote from is we caught up with Lauren from North Canton, Ohio, and she's currently at Ohio State Fisher getting her MBA. She worked for six years in email and app marketing for Abercrombie and Fitch, which is a noted apparel brand. And she said one thing I absolutely would do, again, would be to meet with a current student before applying. My advice to prospective students is don't be afraid to reach out, make connections, and ask questions. Doing something like this will help you get a clearer picture of the programs you apply to. So consistent advice kind of across the board from our real humans this week, right?
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Absolutely. Great advice.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So, in any event, join us on October 23 if you want to talk to some current students with, you know, from Tuck and the other schools I mentioned earlier. That should be fun. But, Alex, I did want to mention we've started to offer admissions tips around the interview process since, as you pointed out, schools are starting to offer interview invites. And so we've published a tip this past week just called interview etiquette 101, which is about, like, the basics. What to wear, when to show up, how to act, all the basics that you need to know. And there's a video that accompanies that, that you and I recorded as part of the admissions academy. So check that out on the site. There'll be more interview tips coming, too. I think we must have, like, I don't know, at least five or ten of them. Alex. I don't even know how many there are.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Yeah, lots more to come.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And then the last thing is, we ran an article about whether or not an MBA is worth it. I know that people listening to this show maybe are pretty on board with getting an MBA or at least thinking about it, but it's a really interesting piece in which we explored, like, well, what is, you know, what makes an MBA worth it. I know a lot of people question the cost and also opportunity costs for going your salary, all that stuff. But we really did a deep dive, you know, made, I think, a pretty compelling case for the degree.
And I'm just going to tell you, I mean, we had some main points which were like a community becoming a part of a community and a network for life, enhancing your business and entrepreneurial skills, improving your career trajectory, working on your leadership skills, and then finally building like, professional skills, like your organizational skills, speaking skills, all these different things that go into the core curricula at a MBA program. So in any event, it's a good article. I would check it out. If you're on the fence about the degree, we did a deep dive.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: I would also just add learning. Cool stuff.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: Yes.
Yeah, definitely. So, one last thing, actually, I forgot is that we have the schools continue to pump out those class profiles where they're sharing all the details about the students that have just started at these top MBA programs. So I'll give you the numbers, Alex, I'll be curious to get your take. I'm going to start with Nyu Stern. They recently published their class profile. They had 4550 apps this past year, and that was a near nearly 48% growth in application volume. They had about 3000 apps the year before. So big time growth there. They took in 352 students, which is a little bit bigger than last year. 327 last year. Women, 47%. That's up from 43 countries represented 50. That's up from 46 students with international citizenship. 40%. Average years of work experience. Five. I'm not. These are kind of similar to last year. Average GMAT score is a 733. That's up one point. Average GRE is a 328. So 164 in each section. And then they shared the percentage taking each test. They had 23% take the GRE and 45% taking the gMat. And the undergraduate GPA for this year's incoming class at stern is 3.64, and that's up from 3.61. So, Alex, what do you make of this? Some pretty big numbers from stern.
[00:12:17] Speaker B: What are the other folks doing if they're not taking the GRE or the GMAT?
[00:12:21] Speaker A: I guess they're requesting waivers or maybe the executive assessment as well. Right?
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, because that's quite a big chunk, right? It's about 30% based off the numbers you just gave us.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: That's about right. Yeah, that's right. So there's got to be a bunch taking the EA and then some people getting waivers.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. But, yeah, I mean, honestly, stern's numbers are fantastic. I mean, there's no doubt when you're based in New York City, that's really compelling. It's the business capital of the US, et cetera, et cetera. Although obviously the capital might be over in Silicon Valley or whatever, but these numbers are really strong. That 733 gmat is comparable to m seven versus the next tier, which we would typically think of. Sterna. And I think we talked about a program the other day that's similar, that has stats that sort of place it right in the m seven mix, even though they're in the tier just outside the m seven. I forget which program that was.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Yale.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Yale, yeah. So similar sort of idea there. 328 GRe is almost comparable to the GMAt. So that's quite good.
But, yeah, I think absolutely fantastic. The app volume increase and percent women, etcetera, just looks really, really strong.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that percent women is impressive. They're almost a parody. Really, really impressive. The other school we talked about or saw a report from was Chicago Booth. I'll give you the numbers. You can give me your thoughts. They had 5152 applications, and that's up 23% in terms of the volume. They have 630 students in the incoming class, virtually unchanged from last year. 42% women, 66 countries represented, and 35% international students with an average work experience overall in the class of five years, the average GMAT score was a 729, and that's up from 728.
Let's see the GRE. They had a total average score of 324, and that's actually down one point. It was 325 last year, and they, too, shared the percentage submitting GRE scores, which was 38%. They did not share. That's the only number I have. So they must just. Either I didn't copy it down or whatever the case, but that number's up. It was 29% last year. So more people submitting the GRE over at Booth, in terms of the undergraduate GPA, it was a 3.6, which is unchanged. So what do you make of these numbers?
[00:14:55] Speaker B: I mean, again, Booth is an m seven, and these numbers are very comparable and strong for an m seven. But that 729 GMAT is lower than Stern, 733, which is quite interesting. Their GRE at 324 is also lower and doesn't really compare to 729. And we've talked about that on a regular basis with a lot of these programs. So, yeah, these are very good numbers for an m seven program, which Booth is. But it's quite interesting that they're shared in the context of Stern, because Stern's numbers look really, really good.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: Well, I have an idea around that, and I think it comes back to what you were talking about earlier, which is that I know Chicago Booth doesn't allow any test waivers, right? So everyone applying has submitted one of those tests, and that may, in the end, you know, sway the numbers a little bit. Right. So if you assume that people who request a waiver might be people who, you know, don't want to take a test or for one reason or another, don't perform well on tests. So. Yeah, so that could, you know, change the averages a bit. The final school that we have numbers from is Wharton. Wharton had 7322 applications, which was an 18% bump. So not quite as much of a bump as booth or obviously stern with that giant bump, but still an increase in volume. They have 866 students in this year's class. That's very similar to last year. 47% women. That's down. They were at priority last year, so they came from 50 down to 47. They have 65 countries represented by citizenship, 31% international. That's unchanged from last year. And they have five years of work experience. On average, the average test score is a 732. That's up a little bit from 728 last year. And their GRE average score overall is a 325. That's up one point from last year. Undergraduate GPA, 3.7. That's also up from 3.6. What do you make of Wharton's numbers?
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah, Wharton's numbers again, like the other two programs, they're very good numbers.
Their class, you know, their application volume goes up 18%. I think that's good. You know, you're going up 18% off of a larger number, too, right? So that's good. And their test scores at 732, 325, they're just a tick above booth test scores, assuming the light booth. They don't allow waivers and so on and so forth. So those test scores make a lot of sense for a program like Wharton. And again, that 732 doesn't really compare to 325s. I'm not quite sure why schools are doing it like that, but they aren't almost consistently. Not all schools and so forth. But, yeah, all their other stats, like the other two programs we've highlighted, look really good. I mean, women are not quite at 50%, but they're very close.
Lots of international and lots of different countries represented, even though the percentages may be a tad lower. But no, very good.
[00:18:00] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So it's been interesting to see these. We'll keep them coming. There's more. The schools have been rolling them out. It's that time of year. But I think we've probably talked enough about stuff that's not related to our wiretaps candidates, so I suggest we move on to that. Alex, unless you have anything else you wanted to share, let's kick on. All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one.
Our first candidate this week has seven schools on the target list. Those schools are Berkeley, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Michigan, Chicago and Uva. Darden. This person's looking to start school in the fall of 25. They've been working in financial services. In fact, they're a chartered accountant and a chartered banker. They're located in Africa. They specify the country, but somewhere in Africa where they have those chartered, which is essentially, you know, the equivalent to CPA type stuff in the US or CFA. They want to get into consulting after business school and the companies on their target list are Bain, BCG. They do mention they might be open to some other firms as well. And we'll get into that in a moment. Their Gre score is a 329 and their GPA from Undergrad is a 3.88. They've worked for five years and they are applying in round two to all of these schools. They wanted to clarify that and they mentioned that beyond the Bain and BCG, they'll also consider sort of boutique firms where they can build a specific consulting set. Their long term goal is to gain some experience from developed economies, like by working in the US and strategy consulting or maybe in Europe or something, and then use that knowledge to make a meaningful impact on emerging economies back home in Africa, they also mentioned that they're a low income, first generation applicant. So, Alex, what do you make of this candidacy? It sounds pretty impressive on the numbers side of things and, yeah, it feels like this person might have a lot to offer.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: I really like this sort of overall profile, quite honestly. I mean, a 388 GPa sounds really, really strong. 329 GRE puts them over the medium for all the three schools that we just round class profiles for.
So that's very good.
The fact that they're first generation, low income, this gets to this idea of sort of their lived experience and so on and so forth. They've come far, I think is going to be fair to say, and I think ADcOM is going to really respect that in terms of their life experiences and what they've been able to overcome to get to where they are today. So if all that is then backed up by really sort of strong growth and impact at work, strong racks that support that, et cetera, et cetera. I think we probably do have a very strong candidate from Africa here. They want to do sort of operations consulting post MBA to gain that experience and then like you say, try to do something that helps impact into the developing economies. I got to think that ADCOm is going to like this profile. Graham, overall I agree.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think like you were saying, there's this interesting dichotomy of like work in the US, get that experience and then come back home and give back and try to improve conditions, etcetera, which pretty compelling. And you know, they do some NGO volunteering. I did want to ask you the question that they posed, which was is it okay? You know, they said should I target MBB? So McKinsey Bain BCG type jobs or the next tier or the big four. They're wondering in terms of getting into consulting post MBA as an international student, do you have a point of view on that?
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know that for the application process it's going to be very critical in terms of how they position that.
So yeah, I think targeting MBB, they've got some strong credentials to back that up.
That can be absolutely fine, I assume. And obviously you could a point of view on that too. But also when the robber hits the road, when they start that MBA program, they're going to soon figure out where they fit because recruiting for those consulting gigs will start very early in their NBA journey. So they might spread their risk a little bit. But yeah, I don't know, I'd overly stress about it at this point. Graeme.
[00:22:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I think they can cast a fairly broad net in the essays and things about consulting writ large and then I would actually advise when they are a student in business school to do the same. I think you never know with sponsorship how things are going to go. And so making sure you're applying to a number of firms to find the ones that might be willing to offer you a role and sponsor you is going to be important. So they're probably going to just need to keep an open mind is my guess.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Overall, say, probably it would be correct to say as an international student there's a couple of extra hurdles versus a domestic student in terms of recruiting and it might be that the consulting firms would be, would really like a candidate like this if they also have offices back in Africa and sort of can make that connection too.
So I don't know, would they face some of that hurdle, Graham, or do you think it's a completely fair playing field between domestic and international students? Are the consulting firms simply just looking for the very best candidates.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: I think it depends on the firm. And I think that the good news is that the MBA programs this candidate is targeting are all stEm. And so as long as they make sure that they. In some cases, some of these programs, you have to pursue certain coursework to get the STEM designation, like a certain major. But if they finished with Stem, they can stay for three years. And I think once you've got that three year, uh, practical training experience allowed, that probably starts to lessen some of the barriers, because a firm can say, yeah, we'll bring this person on. They can stay for three years at least. And each of those three years, we can try to get them a h, one b with the lottery. So, I. I think, you know, it's probably a more even playing field at that point. But you're right. I mean, there are hurdles, and they need to go in with their eyes open on that, on that front, for sure.
[00:24:19] Speaker B: And there's a reason why all these top MBA programs are now. Have pursued stem. Right. For that very. Yeah, that's got to be one of the key reasons.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. All right, so I want to thank that person for sharing their profile. Wish them the best of luck. Let's turn now to wiretaps. Candidate number two.
So, our second candidate this week is applying to six schools for the fall of 25 as well. They've got Columbia, Michigan, Kellogg, Stanford, Chicago, and Yale on the target list. This person's been working in m and a and real estate as a paralegal, and they've also had a stint as a program manager at a non profit. They've been working for about eight years. So they've had a number of different roles they're looking to get in consulting, just like our first candidate. And they indicate targets such as Bain, Deloitte, KPMG, and PwC for post MBA work. Their GRE score is a 330 GPA, 3.75. And this person's interested in either landing in the midwest or the northeast after business school. And they do state in the notes that they left for us, again, that they have experience managing a local nonprofit. They've also done m and a paralegal work at an international law firm and also done kind of real estate paralegal type work for private equity firms.
They mentioned that, you know, they've had some nice accomplishments in each of their roles, so some good accolades, and I presume that's going to translate to strong letters of recommendation. They also indicate that they want to go into operations consulting where they can gain financial analysis skills that can be applied to their long term goal, which is to build their own affordable housing firm. And, Alex, that kind of relates to another point about this candidate. They mention in a note to us that they are african american and that they experienced homelessness when they were young, which is what's motivating them to pursue those long term goals and also kind of has motivated them all along here in terms of their education and career and stuff. So what do you make of this candidate, Alex?
[00:26:24] Speaker B: Apply to Stanford and do that first essay?
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good essay.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: It's on their list.
It's definitely what means most to you and why, you know, if you talk about starting in life, homelessness at some point early in your life, and so on and so forth, again, that lived experience, how far this person has come, is going to really resonate well with the ADcom at these programs. I think. Well, I know it would. So I think that's going to be really, really good. But on top of that, they've got this sort of consistent thread of housing as part of their career and so on and so forth, and their long term goal is to be developing more affordable housing. However, they pitched it so clearly, that early life experience has given them a really strong sort of north Star for what they want to do. And their sort of paralegal work and the type of work they've been doing over the last several years also sort of been very additive to that. So programs are going to love that. I think when you combine that with super numbers, too, it's like, yes, this is a really, really strong overall profile.
They've got quite a lot of work experience, and they said they jumped around in different roles, but they were doing that deliberately to sort of for some deliberate reasons, which I won't necessarily go into. But as long as they explain that well in their assays and whatever, I think this is a super candidate.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. Underrepresented, amazing numbers, really interesting lived experience. There's a ton to like here. I will say that if they want to do kind of real estate and development and affordable housing eventually, I am a little curious as to why they don't. There are a couple of schools that come to mind for me that are not on this list. So one is Cornell Johnson, which has a noted kind of real estate program, and then Wharton as well, in Philadelphia. So those are two. And again, I think this candidate's gonna be able to punch their ticket, like, wherever they wanna go, and so they should cast a net that could be fairly narrow at top schools. I really think they're gonna get into some of these programs. So anyway, just some food for thought. But, yeah, this is a stellar candidate. And they've had six jobs in eight years. That is a little problematic. But they gave a very good reason for why they've made these moves, because they don't have the big degree. Like, they're not a lawyer and they've been working in these kind of legal and private equity environments. And so they've had to move to kind of get more responsibilities because they've hit some kind of ceilings at some of these firms where it's like, oh, you don't have this degree, we can't push you up or something is what it sounded like. Right. So, yeah, so I feel like this is a great candidate. Assuming they do a good job on the applications, they should have their pick of schools. We'll see.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: I think you're right.
[00:29:29] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. Why don't we thank them for sharing their profile? Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three.
So our final candidate this week has 15 schools on the target list. And I'm not going to read them all, but I mean, it's, it's a who's who of, you know, they got Carnegie Mellon, Duke and Georgetown and Minnesota. Carlson, Ohio State, Washington, Foster, UMD, Smith. So it's kind of a range of schools that I would consider to be ranked, you know, sort of in that like 15 to 25 zone. They've been working in tech sales. They actually have eight years of experience working in tech sales. They want to start school in the fall, obviously, like our other two candidates this week. And they're thinking about getting into consulting, maybe some long term entrepreneurial goals. For the short term, they've got accenture, Kearney, Bain, Booz, Allen, Hamilton, BCG, Ernst and Young. All the usual kind of consulting suspects on the target list. This candidate is located in India. They have a 318 on the GRE and a 3.3 GPA. They're looking to get to the us and they mentioned that they have an engineering degree and a PGDM, which I think is maybe a postgraduate. I can't remember what the stands for. Degree in management. So I think it's sort of like an MBA, but something you do straight out of undergraduate. And they went to top, they say, top 15 school in India for those degrees. They have some extracurriculars, one of which is debating. And they've had a little bit of international work experience as part of a recent kind of project. They've been on, which took them to the UK. Alex, but what do you make of this candidate?
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this candidate's been quite realistic in terms of the program selection, which I think is good. So, like you say, top 15 to top 25.
I think probably their work experience is the strongest element of their overall profile.
And they even suggested in the apply wire entry that's probably the case. And they have eight years of work experience. I would have liked to have seen them applying in the first round because they're going to be overrepresented in the pool, but maybe they can get a couple of applications in the first round because some of these schools are later in the cycle. But this 318 GRE is not outstanding. They think they can improve that by five or six points. I think if they can improve it by five or six points, then applying in the second round with a 325 GRE is probably going to serve them better.
Or at least, let's put it this way, if they do ultimately end up applying all to their target schools in the second round, make sure they do do that with a better GRE score, and that mining proves their admissibility at these programs, but it also might even yield some scholarship opportunity. Certainly with a better GRE score, if they ultimately are going to be in round two, I think they absolutely should retake that GRE.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: Groan yeah, I could not agree more. I just worry about being overrepresented as an indian candidate with an engineering background working in tech, even though it is tech sales. It's not engineering per se type work, but it's just that test score. And what's interesting, I don't know if you would agree with me on this, but I sometimes feel like. Like the schools on their target list. I feel like when they look at indian candidates on some levels, they're looking at that group as a way to potentially boost their average scores in these domains. Right. Like getting, like, an indian candidate with a big, big numbers to help boost the overall average. And so it's going to. I don't think that, you know, yes, they're targeting the right range, but it may not be easy with a 318. And so I would encourage them to take that test again. We've got a couple months before those round two deadlines show up, so no reason not to do it. And if they can get into to the 323 plus somewhere in there, that might really help, in my view.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: Absolutely agree.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Otherwise it's just gonna be a question of showcasing what they've accomplished. It sounds like sometimes sales, we say is like a dirty word. Like, if you're a salesperson, people think, oh, that's. But it sounds like this candidate has had some nice milestones that they can point to and a lot of important business development. So, again, yeah, I would just boost the test score, hit all these schools in round two, and I think they'll find success with at least a couple of them. I mean, gosh, they got a lot on their. On their target list. I don't know if they'll be able to apply to all 15, but in any event, I think they'll find success if they can boost that score a bit and get their ducks in a row for around two.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: But also, it's just if you know that you can get a better score, you need to get that better score. It's like any element of the application. We talk about this quite frequently. Just make sure everything that you represent is your best effort. Right. So best test score. Obviously, you can't know anything about your GPA, but obviously representing work experience in the best life, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Yeah, totally agree. All right, why don't we wish this candidate the best of luck as they set out, hopefully to retake the GRE and boost that score. Alex, thanks for picking these out. This week we had a mix of different candidate types and us, India, Africa. So great covering the map as always.
Let's do this again next week if you're willing.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: Take care, everyone. Stay safe.
