[00:00:16] Speaker A: Welcome to the clear admit MBA admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, August 12, 2024. For more than 100 years, Emory University's Guiseueta Business school has been a training ground for principal leaders and a laboratory for powerful insights. Whether you're looking to accelerate your career or make a career pivot, Emory's one year and two year full time MBA programs prepare you for a lifetime of career confidence. Learn more about Emory's top 20 MBA with top five career outcomes offering world class academics and small by design classes delivered in a dynamic global city. More at Emory biz clearadmit, I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: So what's the latest? I mean, what are you hearing? Anything happening on the wires? There's been a lot of people posting to apply wire, I guess.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So livewire is very quiet and that's expected this time of year. Yeah, we're starting to slowly drift now into round one deadlines, which will begin right at the end of this month. But, yeah, we're still a little bit of time away.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you're someone who's applying not in the first round because you're still hard at work on everything or don't have a test yet, or. We're running a whole series of events in September. That's kind of for the late arrivals. We're running events on consecutive Wednesdays, September 11, 18th and 25th at noon Eastern. We're doing, it's sort of like an inside the MBA admissions process series. And we're sitting down each week with five different admissions directors and there'll be kind of a roundtable discussion. And so we have Wharton and Georgetown and Duke and INSEAD LBs, Columbia. The list goes on, but there'll be five schools each week, so stay tuned. You can sign up for that by going to bit ly insidemba. Really looking forward to that next series. And I think it'll be useful for people applying in round two and beyond. But also there's. We're gonna, I'm just gonna. Spoiler alert. We're gonna talk a little bit about interviewing, so it'll also be relevant for people who've maybe just got naps in round one or working on those apps for round one deadline. So stay tuned. Sign up online. Looking forward to that. Otherwise, Alex, we've had a lot of really fun content coming out on the website.
I'll start with the sort of really fun stuff. So we did this article about Taylor Swift lyrics for MBA applicants, which I know you read. Are you a fan of Taylor Swift?
[00:02:51] Speaker B: I'm a huge fan of what she's been able to do in terms of really nurturing and developing a strong fandom and so forth. I mean, her fans are super passionate, and she's done some deliberate things to make that happen, and. Yeah, so I'm a huge fan of that. I'm starting to like some of her songs, but that's through studying her as someone that. That Ron's a really impressive fandom.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, what an talk about building community, building a brand. Yeah, she's. We had a lot of fun going through, or Lauren on our team had a lot of fun going through her songs and coming up with lyrics that are good sort of advice as you travel through the admissions process. We also, in a kind of similar vein, we had our whole team come together and share our favorite essay questions, so we got to all pick our favorites. Alex, what was yours again?
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Well, what do you think it was, Graham?
[00:03:49] Speaker A: I think it's got to be the Stanford essay, what matters most to you and why? Is that what you picked?
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: So, in any event, I think. I can't remember. Oh, I picked NYU's pick six essay. Anyway, so we all went round as a team, and we did this article where we all shared our favorite essay question, why? And then we had this even more kind of interesting exercise where we each got to create our own question that we would ask if we were deans of admission somewhere. So read that article, too. That's a lot of fun.
Also did do a regular admissions tip, which is it poses the classic question, should I apply in round one or round two? And the answer is yes.
So, Alex, what do you say? I mean, any quick tips on round one versus round two?
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, if you're potentially overrepresented in the pool, then round one absolutely makes a difference. So that could be if you're a popular region in the world, India, male tech focused and so on and so forth would be one example. Nigeria may be another example, etcetera.
If you're not overrepresented, then yeah, maybe the ability to get in admissibility is similar for rounds one and round two, but if you can get your stuff in in time for round one, then you'll hear sooner. You can develop a strategy for round two to create an overall more effective application strategy. So there's definitely advantage there, but there's also a learning curve.
So your apps in round two would tend to be a little stronger than the ones in round one, simply because you know the process better, you know yourself better because you've done more sort of introspection in preparation for this and so on and so forth. So there's quite a lot of nuance here, Graham. It's an interesting topic.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's not cut and dried. And what's great is the article that we put up on the site is actually quite in depth and refers to. I mean, there's a lot of pros and cons that we outline in the article and then some links to additional reading and stuff, too. So check that out if you can. We do continue to connect with admissions directors for our ADCom Q and A's on the site. So over the past week, Lauren was able to connect with Chris Healey, who's head of admissions over at Manchester. And we asked, actually, Chris, what is one aspect of your program that you wish applicants knew more about? And Chris said that. Here's what he said. He said, we are one of the most, if not the most practical MBA program in the world. Yes, we teach all our students the fundamentals in business and allow them to specialize in the second half of the MBA, as do all mbas in the world. But what we do that is so unique is that we have our students working on live consultancy projects from day one. Three, live client consultancy projects give Manchester MBA students 900 hours of client facing time, more than any other MBA in the world. So that's something I didn't know about. I don't know if you'd heard about that, Alex, but apparently they have a really hands on, lots of kind of external, experiential stuff happening throughout their program.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds really good, actually. Reminds me a little bit of Ross's map program, but, yeah, really interesting.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's over at Manchester, we also caught up with Karen.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Did you not ask him if he's a Man city fan or a Man United fan? That would have been more important for me.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: I did not ask him that. I do know that he. This is so sad. Like, I know that he likes a good pint and that he does like football, but I don't actually know what his team is. And for some reason, I'm kind of wondering if he's not a fan of either. If he's like, got some other connection somewhere else, I'll have to ask him next time I connect with him.
So we also caught up with Kara Sonier, who is over at University of Georgia, the Terry school, and we asked her for advice about the application data form, you know, that's where you put in your kind of details of your work experience and your outside interests, et cetera. And she said, be thorough and honest. Highlight professional experiences, extracurricular activities, volunteer work, hobbies. These provide a holistic view of your background and showcase your leadership, teamwork and personal interests. Present a well rounded picture of yourself to demonstrate your preparation for an MBA and how you'll contribute to our community. So that's, I think, really good advice. And we always talk about not leaving those data forms for the end that it takes time to get all that stuff into the forms online and to really use them effectively to showcase how well rounded you are, right?
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And then last but not least, we caught up with Isabel Perna, who is head of admissions over at ESCP, which is in Paris here. And we asked her about essays, and she said the essays are critical in the admissions process. They are a key element that helps us to better understand who the candidate is, why they're applying to ESCP, their potential contribution to the cohort and to the school, and how the, how the MBA program can best help them to achieve their career goals. She also mentioned that I would. She says, I would advise candidates to stay on topic. Meaningful and impactful essays are generally short. It is important that candidates are authentic and do not attempt to impersonate someone else, both in terms of content and writing style. It's crucial to avoid generic responses or statements and to make sure that you are effectively answering the question. So I'm hearing a couple different messages from her there, you know, around, like, stay on topic, keep it, you know, concise. Don't try to be someone that you're not, and be sure that you answer the question, which is something we hear over and over again.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it's consistent across all schools. This advice, no doubt.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So good advice from Isabel at ESCP. Other than that, I don't have a lot this week, Alex, we're going to get into our three candidates. We did run a couple of mini podcasts, so I guess since people have last tuned in, we've run mini podcast interviews that I did at the GMAT conference with Laurel Grodman over at Yale, Som with Brent Nagamine, who is at University of Washington Foster. And I think by the time this airs, there will also be one out in the field that I did with Donna Levinson over at MIT Sloan. So those are all like these ten minute short episodes that you can find wherever you're listening to this episode. So enjoy those if you're applying to those programs kind of must listen stuff. Otherwise you can reach out to Alex and I by emailing
[email protected] use the subject line wiretaps. So Alex, anything else before we talk candidates this week?
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Let's get called.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: All right, this is wiretaps candidate number one.
So our first candidate this week is applying to seven schools and those schools are Harvard, London Business School, MIT, NYU, Oxford, Stanford and Wharton. And this candidate wants to start in the fall of 25. They list their pre MBA career as being in government and they are looking to sort of get into non profit or social impact work. So maybe kind of similar. We're going to hear more about their career in a moment. They have a GRe score of 320. Their GPA from undergrad is a 2.7 and they have eleven years of experience.
Now they mentioned that they are an environmental scientist and that they also have a master of science in which they earned a 7.4 out of ten and that's a master of science in government. So. And it was apparently they're kind of a very difficult program to get into. This candidate is in India. They received several awards at the national level as well as many international fellowships. They've done a lot of publications and presentations at both the national and global level and they've worked for climate resilience at the community level, especially helping women. So in short, they claim they have excellent career achievements and progression. And I should mention that some other details are shared here too. She says that she's a first generation female. The undergrad GPA she knows is low, 2.7 out of four. She had to work part time though to complete her studies. And she does again elaborate that she mentors young women in young girls from small towns in terms of their career choices and helping them to get scholarships. And it sounds like she's the mother of two children as well and she takes care of her parents a bit of. So lots of family responsibilities and I don't know if I mentioned it but she has eleven years of experience.
So Alex, there's a lot going on here, but what do you make of this candidate?
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah, this is not your stereotypical candidate for top tier MBA programs and she needs to recognize that.
I do think the quality of her experience may well be super strong.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: As an environmental scientist she's several awards, several publications.
Looks like she's had real high impact and done some really interesting things.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Yeah, agreed.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: As you mentioned, she's first generation, so on and so forth. So she's probably had to overcome a lot to get to where she is today and so on and so forth. But there are going to be some things that are going to challenge her in the admissions process for sure. The lower undergrad GPA is going to be a concern. It's complemented by a half decent gre score, but nothing outstanding there for sure.
And then having eleven years of experience makes her a little bit more of an outlier in that regard. So she's going to have to really establish why MBA, why now given the length of her career to date, making sure that the full time MBA experience is really relevant for her. Be good to get a better sense of her post MBA trajectory where she sees herself going forward.
But she is aiming really high I think for top schools.
Her experience may be really attractive to them quite honestly, but they will deem her quite risky.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, yeah.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: So she's gonna have to overcome that. Yeah.
[00:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think so her 7.4 out of ten in her master of science in government where she has this kind of environmental scientist background, I think that's probably okay in the sense that we know in India anything seven and above out of ten is usually quite strong, that there's not as much great inflation and that assuming she went to a decent institution. But yeah, that undergrad GPA is quite low. I wonder if that's converted. I mean it's hard to know. It's possible that it was on a 40 scale but that two seven looms large. I would have loved to see a 330 on the GRE instead of a 320 to help kind of balance that out. But I could not agree with you more though that this would be someone really interesting to have in the classroom. If she's been working in government with environmental kind of the environment, she's mentoring girls in. In rural communities. There's a lot going on that I think could be really interesting. And I mean she's juggling like her own responsibilities as a mother. She has two kids. I mean there's a lot that she has been able to do that could make her really appealing as a member of the kind of MBA community at a school. But the academics I think is just a bit of a red flag for now. So what would you tell her to do? Would you say go out and retake the test and boost that score or adjust the school selection? Cause right now it's all top ten us programs plus Oxford and lbs which are quite competitive european programs. So what would you have her do?
[00:15:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd probably suggest both.
Look at the next tier of top schools, certainly in the US.
And if she thinks there's any scope for improvement in that gre score, it should pay dividends. I would quite like to see her in the first round, but I think maybe her career is so unorthodox that she can actually get away with being in the second round. But a stronger test score I think would be really important in this case.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it would be good to know where she wants to end up as well because I think my advice to her would vary. If she's like, oh, I really want to be in the US, then I would say, okay, yeah, look at that next year of us program that's outside the top ten as to just expand the scope. But if she were saying, oh, no, Europe would be great, then I would say, well what about Hec or IMD or esade or. I mean, there are many other schools in Europe that could help her. Imperial. I mean there are a lot of schools and many of them are a one year, which might actually better suit her.
She already has eleven years experience. Maybe she wants to kind of get in and get out. It all depends on what she's trying to do with the career. But it doesn't sound like she's looking to make a radical shift. So in any event, yeah, there's lots to potentially do here and I'm hoping she takes this advice to heart. And as you said, she probably could wait until the second round if she needs to do some things like retake a test first.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: And just as a final thing, Graeme, maybe full time NBA isn't the right move for her.
What other options should she consider?
[00:16:56] Speaker A: Yeah, the only issue is, I guess she's in India and so she. Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question.
I'm less familiar with the sort of part time offerings in India. If she were to somehow be able to get work in the UK or the US or something, she could obviously pursue a part time program in any number of markets. But yeah, that's something. Yeah. Maybe something for her to think about as well. I think she's probably hoping to use the MBA as a ticket to kind of get into some of these other markets, but hard to know.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So anyway, I want to thank her for sharing her profile. Best of luck to her as she moves on with her applications. Let's move on though and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two.
So our second candidate this week has seven schools on the target list and those schools are Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Kellogg, Stanford, Chicago, Booth and Wharton. This person again is looking to start in the fall of 25. They've been a product operations manager at an AI startup. That's what they're doing right now. They also are looking to get sort of stay in tech, but maybe do something entrepreneurial. They've listed some companies though, that they would target if they join a firm. And those companies are Apple, Facebook, Facebook, Google, LinkedIn, Tesla, and Uber.
Their GMAT score is a 740 and their GPA is a 3.7. This person has five years of work experience. They're located in San Francisco and they're thinking about either New York, Boston, or San Francisco. After business school, they mentioned, just to clarify that, that three seven was at a top 30 state school. They had a STEM major with a writing minor, and they mentioned that they did a bunch of research. They were published, presented at a conference. They also have a grad degree, which is a master's, also in a STEM major from a top ten school, and they had a three six in their masters.
They did a little bit of it consulting as a kind of first thing in their career before moving on. For the last three years, as I mentioned, working at an AI school startup, they've been promoted at that startup. They've had a little bit of people management, so they for a while manage a couple of direct reports.
They're also a board member for a non profit that focuses on education for low income students, and they've had a leadership role in that kind of organization. They're actually currently co leading a team of twelve people and they think they're going to get a recommendation from the CEO of that organization as one of their recs. They also in the past has done some animal rescue work. And Alex, I loved this. They played guitar in multiple bands and played a few dozen shows in high school, college, etcetera. They mentioned they're going to apply in round two and they were kind of looking for our feedback on their profile. So Alex, what do you make of this?
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Yeah, this really interesting candidate in as much as if you contrast this candidate with our first candidate, I would say this candidate is very low risk in terms of they've done some very traditional stuff.
They check all the boxes with the numbers, etcetera, etcetera.
Whereas our first candidate, I would say comes with quite high risk, even though both candidates look to have really interesting work experience in both candidates, but like, they've done really well. So this sort of idea of risk, I think is quite interesting for ADCOM. So why is this kind of low risk? They look like they've done their consulting gig, they've worked at an AI startup. Sounds really interesting. Impressive. They've got to show impact and growth at work. Obviously they've done some nice outside of work stuff. They're a junior board member, etcetera, etcetera. As you say. They play a guitar and show a little bit of that wacky side of them. So that's quite good. Their numbers are really solid across the board. Seven. Well, really solid. Very good. 743 seven with a grad degree at three six. So yeah, Graham, I think there's a lot to like here. I mean, you know, maybe they're biographic profile, asian male, us might put them a little bit into that over represented bucket especially. There's a lot of their work experience and academics has been quite geeky focused type stuff.
But again, I think lots to like here. I would really encourage them to get one or two applications in the first round. It's like, what are you waiting for?
You should have everything prepared at this point. Obviously, I'm not sure the status of their recommenders, but Sloan's round one deadline is not till September 30. That gives them plenty of time, I think, to get their docs in a row for at least that application and that would give them a good sense of where they sit going into round two.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I think that that was the thing that you and I both commented on on this post on the website, which was that it'd be nice for them to get these apps in earlier because they do risk being a little overrepresented asian male working in tech. So I was sort of like, wow, a player. But then they said that one of the wrecks is actually in a bit of a family emergency and they don't want to push them. They did say one of the recs is going to come from, I guess, probably a current supervisor and then the other will come from this outside board that they're a member of, helping with education and stuff. So I think that's a nice mix. But yeah, like you said, I mean, MIT's deadline is quite late and so why not at least get that one in to see if they can then do it? But otherwise, I love this candidacy and I think that the main thing that I tried to convey to them was don't come off as too geeky like you were saying. Right. So just be careful about jargon. You know, they're obviously working in a cutting edge field and AI, which is great, but don't lose your reader or your interviewer in tech related jargon. So they should probably test out their interview skills and their essays and everything with, like, their friends who were english majors or something as a way to make sure.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: One other point about Sloan that came to me, Graham, as you compare it to other top business schools applications, I think it's the lightest effort to complete because they have that additional essay if you're invited to interview.
So the upfront effort, probably for Sloan on a relative scale, is less than it would be if you were targeting Harvard or Stamford or Wharton in the first round.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: Yeah, they tend to sort of backload their application process so that they're spending the most time with the people that they've kind of selected to interview and stuff. So that means that the front end of the application is actually fairly slim. So, yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. So I would say, I strongly encourage them to consider that because it will help again, they could get into these schools in round two potentially, but I'm just trying to put the odds in their favor. So, yeah, in any event, I do want to thank them for sharing their profile and for engaging in some back and forth with us on the site. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three.
So our third candidate this week has seven schools on the target list, and those schools are Dartmouth, Harvard, IMD, NYU, Stanford, Wharton, and Yale. Again looking to start school in the fall of 25. This candidate has been working in kind of nonprofit social impact, but also done a little bit with tech and entrepreneurship. They're looking to be an entrepreneur, but again, it sounds like with a focus in nonprofit or SI after business school, GMAT score is a 720 and their gpa is a 3.1. This candidate has five years of work experience and they are located in Seattle, Washington. They want to stay in the states after business school, and they did mention in the notes that they studied politics, economics and global development at UC Berkeley and that they have six years of project management experience at nonprofits, socially impactful startups and technology companies. They want to combine their private and public sector knowledge to improve business ethics and the effectiveness of social impact projects. And they indicated that they began doing this through their consulting firm, but they would like an MBA to grow and scale it. So it sounds like they maybe have their own consulting firm. They also want to just work on their general leadership development and kind of leadership strategies within social impact organizations. They do say that their ideal program is Harvard or Dartmouth because they have an MBA, MPA, ID, joint degree program. So, Alex, what do you make of this I mean, I did mention GMAT, 720 gpA, 3.1. So the GPA kind of jumps out at me. But what's your take on candidate?
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, much like our other two candidates, the professional experience sounds really, really interesting and really good. Yeah. So I really like that. I'd love to get a bit more clarity on the long term vision and long term goal. So it's. Maybe it's to grow this consulting firm to be a big player in whatever it is, sort of social impact and ethics and governance and so on and so forth, but a bit more clarity on that.
I do, like I say, I really like the work experience to date. I like the rationale for wanting to pursue the MBA.
You know, in my notes, I just put call profile down, so. Versus a couple of these others. But, yeah, really, really good. The numbers don't jump off the page.
So are they good enough? Possibly for the very top program, 723.1 out of Berkeley and so forth. But they're certainly not going to allow them to stand out in that regard. So, yeah, if their numbers profile was like our second candidate, I would be a tad more enthusiastic overall. But I do like their experience, their vision, their penchant for wanting, doing social impact and so on and so forth. That's very necessary.
So, yeah, I'm rooting for this candidate.
[00:27:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like this is like a nine out of ten on the work experience and probably on the goals front. I mean, they need to articulate the goals better, or they just didn't articulate them fully for us. But I think that, like you're saying, really interesting work experience, and I think, you know, it's given some points. They went to Berkeley, great school. They studied politics, econ and global development. They're looking at joint degrees. So there's some really interesting elements. And on the surface, a 720 GMAT, you would say, well, it's a little below the average for some of their target schools, but it's a strong score. The problem is, is that you're pairing it with that 3.1 GPA, and that just feels low. And so that's my concern is that, as we say over and over again on the show, ideally they would have had like a 750 or some giant GMAT score to counter the low GPA. Or maybe they would take MBA, math or business fundamentals or something to show the admissions reader that this person is academically ready. I do worry that looking at this list of schools, I mean, they have some of the most selective schools on the planet on their list. And I'm just worried that the numbers don't really line up with that. They do have IMD in Switzerland, which is a little bit different because it's in Europe. They'll be applying from America, so they'll have a bit of an advantage as a us citizen looking at IMD because, you know, obviously a lot of Americans stay in the US to get their MBA. So Americans are often coveted by some of these european programs. So I like the odds there. But obviously IMD is a different sort of program. It's a one year and, you know, so just. It would be a different offering. And I don't know what this person's goals are vis a vis. They mentioned joint degree programs and so that may complicate things. So.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: Yeah, but I do.
I do think tuck is a good option here.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, very much. And I think we were talking beforehand, we don't know if this candidate is male or female. And so that plays a role too. Right? Because women are underrepresented in the application pool, men tend to be overrepresented in the pool. So be good to know that, too, because that could help a bit. But, yeah, just. And maybe there's some context to the GPA that we don't have. You know, maybe it's like a 40 in the last two years and some really tough times in the first two years, you know, so we don't. We don't know that. That could obviously explain things, too. So in any event, yeah, this is an interesting case, but I really think that admissions teams will be rooting for this candidate due to the unique background and potentially compelling career plan. It's just that. Yeah, we need that. The numbers will give some pause, I think.
[00:29:47] Speaker B: Yeah, couldn't agree more. They will be rooting for this candidate.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So in any event, I do want to thank this person for sharing their profile and wish all three of our candidates the best of luck. Obviously, keep us posted on Applywire. We love getting updates when people, you know, get their apps in or make a change to a test score, whatever may happen. But Alex, thanks for picking these out, and we'll do it all again next week if you're willing to.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: Very good. Best luck, everyone. Stay safe. Take care.
