Episode Transcript
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Welcome to the clear admit MBA admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, July 1, 2024. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: So what's cooking? I mean, I feel like I haven't seen much happening, obviously, much to the dismay of our wait listed community members, but it seems like things have slowed a bit.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I have seen a couple of movements. Booth and Sloan.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Oh, okay. They went to their list. Okay.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: And at the end of the day, if there's a little bit of movement from those programs, we might see a knock on effect with programs in the top 16 in the next week or two. So the point is, there's still a little bit of movement. It's not over yet.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: All right? It ain't over till it's over, as they say.
Yeah. Best of luck to anyone that's still waiting. Obviously, our site, we've really begun the pivot. We're talking a lot about schools releasing applications, their online applications going live for next season here, and essay topics are out, et cetera. So there's a lot going on there. And speaking of essay topics, two quick points. One is starting on July 10. So a little more than a week from today, we're going to begin our essay insights webinar series. It's a free series open to anyone. You just have to register, and you can do so at bit ly summeressays. We've got basically all the top schools joining us, so please come out. Those are a lot of fun. We talk with the schools about their essay questions and really grill them to.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah, you've also got loads of people already signed up, Graham.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. I saw that. The other thing, though, about essays that I wanted to mention, Alex, and we talked about this before we came on air here, but Harvard has issued their essays. So I know we talked a week or two ago about how they hadn't yet published their essay topics, and some people were wondering, like, where are they? When are they coming? But. So they're out now, and they've actually changed things around quite substantially. Right. They used to have one open ended essay. Tell us anything you think we might want to know. 900 word limit. It used to have no word limit, but in the last couple of years, it's had a limit. And this year they've paired back to 800 words total across three essays that have very specific prompts. Like, there's an essay about your goals, there's an essay about leadership, and there's an essay about curiosity, so I just wanted to know, like, what's your. Any initial thoughts? Like, I mean, this is kind of a big move for them.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I quite like the idea about curiosity because I listen and read a lot about what's going on with Gen AI and how AI is going to sort of dominate humanity, but that's one area, curiosity, where we need humanity. Right. So AI can answer a load of questions, but they're not very good at asking and being curious. So, anyway, that's a complete tangent. I understand that, but I was quite interested to see curiosity appear in as a prompt for the HBS essay essays. But, you know, quite frankly, Graham. Yeah, I'm glad the essays are out. I know we.
Lauren has put together really comprehensive essay topic analysis already.
She showed me the draft of that. I know you've weighed in heavily on these three essays, but to me, you know, these essays effectively just serve as guardrails in terms of providing guidance to the candidate of how to best showcase their qualities in the admissions process.
So having a goals essay makes a lot of sense to me because that's quite standard across top business schools. Having a leadership essay makes a lot of sense to me, and I quite like the way they've approached them. So I know we've had a little bit of back and forth on Slap Graham, and I don't think we need to reveal all that on the team. But I'm excited with these essays.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, my main thing is I just. I do worry a little bit about word counts. Like, they're quite short. And so, you know, they. They ask for a fair amount of ground to be covered, and so it's just going to require people to be concise. But, yeah, it takes a lot of.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Skill, right, to be concise.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: It's harder to write a hundred word essay than it is a 500 word essay, no doubt in my mind.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So anyway, I think it's interesting. Obviously they have a new admissions director. I'm hoping to actually get her on the show at some point. Need to reach out to them, but they have a new admissions director and so they're making some changes and we'll see how it goes.
Again, as you said, these are kind of hallmark type essays. In terms of goals, essay, leadership essay, there's nothing groundbreaking, although the curiosity one is interesting and that sets them apart. So we'll see how it goes. The other thing is, Alex, we did, again, very much in line with this. We ran an admissions tip on our website. Called defining your post MBA career goals. It's a classic tip that we put out there each year for candidates to read, and it'll really help if you're sort of starting that process of thinking about your goals in order to write essays and plan your MBA sort of trajectory.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: We also ran another, and we've heard along those lines. Graham, not to interrupt, but we've heard from the real humans alumni pieces that we've shared in this podcast, several of the alum talking about how important it was for them to start their NBA with real focus, to really understand what they need and want to get out of the NBA. And that stems from really articulating your career goals and understanding them and understanding why you're embarking on this one or two year journey. So, yeah, super important.
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And then the other thing we did was more of a tactical admissions tip, which is how to address unemployment or gaps in employment in your resume. Right. So when you're applying to business school, most schools will ask if you have any of these gaps, and you gotta be out in front on this stuff. And so we talk about how to address that, and then we. It's been a busy week, actually. We ran a whole bunch of admissions director Q and A's, as I'd hinted last week or the week before. We. You know, these are going to come fast and furious because Lauren's been talking with so many admissions directors at schools around the world. So we had Rebecca Lewin from Rochester, Simon weigh in with an Adcom Q and A. We also talked to Maria Pineda from University of Maryland Smith School, and Matteo Pedriglieri. I think I'm pronouncing that right. And he's from M. Leon Business School here in France. And then finally we caught up with Paula Amarim from IESE in Spain, and I wanted to read you a quote from her ADcom Q and A, just because I thought it was kind of interesting in terms of how they run their process. So we asked them about, just like, what's the process for reviewing files? And she said, our admissions team is organized by region to ensure candidates are assessed fairly based on the academic and professional context of their particular country of residence. Typically, the associate director managing regional events is the same one responsible throughout the admissions journey. Our approach is very high touch, and our team endeavors to know every student who joins the MBA. Then she went on to say that each application is reviewed by the admissions team and they may be invited for an interview. So they do interviews by invitation at ESA.
She said that applicants may also be asked to join us for an assessment day where they either attend in person in Barcelona, New York or Sao Paulo, or virtually. And for a number of reasons, not everyone gets one of those invitations to an assessment day. But she said that those who attend will do an MBA exercise that lasts a few hours. Generally speaking, this is a chance for the admissions team to see how you work and think, but also an opportunity for the applicant to get a taste of the ESA MBA experience.
And then obviously once interviews and assessment days are completed, the ESA admissions and scholarship committees get together to review applications and make decisions. So I don't know, it's just interesting. I know Paula fairly well, seen her at a bunch of conferences over the years and seen her rise up to this director role at Esse. But it's just interesting how they run things, especially that kind of regional focus where they really divide it up by country almost.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I was in charge of Europe for Walton Graham. You didn't know that?
[00:08:29] Speaker A: Oh, actually, yeah, I remember that. That's right. So you guys too. But that's not done anymore.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: And it was a very loose sort of thing. Maybe I'd help plan some of the water travel in Europe, decide where to go and answer some more like peculiar questions about some files or whatever, but certainly probably doesn't sound anything as sort of structured as what they're doing. At ease.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And I pointed this out also just because I think that this idea of an assessment day, which they also do, by the way, at IMD, we also know that some of the other schools where Wharton does the team based of learning thing, where you're, you know, the interview is a team thing. So I think there's especially with AI and chat GPT and people being able to produce all kinds of materials in advance for their written application. A lot of these like video essays or in person kind of assessments I think are going to be, you know, taking center stage because it's a great way to get at the authentic candidate and maybe not allow for external factors to intervene on their behalf and make everything perfect. Right. So in any event, it's just kind of interesting. And that's why I love these admissions director Q and A's, because we tease out some of the nuances that the schools are having their process.
One other thing, we did run a special bonus podcast, which you can find in this wherever you're listening right now.
It was a roundtable discussion with admissions directors from London Business School Kellogg, UT, Austin McCombs and Carnegie Mellon University Tepper. And this was from the event we did in Chicago, and it was all about. We talked about career goals. Again, very relevant for today's show. We also talked about how you brainstorm for essays.
We talked about letters of recommendation and interview prep. So all these components of the application process that you have some degree of control over in terms of how you can prepare and etcetera. So, good episode. It's only 30 minutes long, so give that a listen if you can. And we have one more coming along these lines. And, yeah, so there's still a lot of content that we've got forthcoming on the podcast, and that's all I had. Alex, obviously, if people want to write to us, you can write to infocleeradmit.com dot, use the subject line wiretap. But otherwise, I guess we can start talking about this week's candidate profiles.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: Let's get going.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: All right, so this is wiretaps, candidate number one.
This week's first candidate has seven schools on the target list, and they're going to be applying this summer and fall to start in the fall of 25. They've got Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Kellogg, NYU, Chicago, and Wharton on their target list. They did about four years of work for a Fortune 150 industrial company before moving to MBB. So they're working either at McKinsey, Bain or BCG. They didn't reveal which. And they're thinking of using the MBA to get into entrepreneurship or potentially maybe setting up a search fund, which is a type of entrepreneurship with sort of a mix of kind of, you know, PEVC slash entrepreneurship.
They had a 700 on the GMAt exam. They had a 3.6 gpa in undergrad where they studied engineering. They also are located in Texas. And they note that they are 27 years old, that they are on track, actually for a promotion right now at MDB, and that promotion would be into a post MBA role, hoping that that happens by the end of this calendar year. And they're also thinking of retaking the GMAT to try to get a higher score.
They did mention that they are an underrepresented minority and that they are male and that they don't have a ton of extracurriculars, but they do a fair amount of volunteer and mentorship, have done a fair amount of volunteer work and mentorship over the last several months. So, Alex, you had a little bit of dialogue with this candidate, but what do you make of their profile?
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I like it, because how often do we get a candidate that's worked in industrial manufacturing for several years and then transition into MBB? It sort of signals to me. They must have done some pretty cool stuff in that four year period before getting access to a role in MBB.
So, obviously, I'd like to hear a little bit more about that, but I do.
I do like that transition, as it were.
So, six years of experience, nice GPA.
They're going to be underrepresented in the pool.
And, you know, I think the 700 GMAT's not ideal, but they're going to retake it. So if they think they can move the needle on the GMAT and get it to the median scores of the schools they're targeting, they've obviously got a good GPA.
Their work experience looks pretty. Pretty well, whether it's stellar or not, but pretty good. Slight weakness, maybe, on the extracurricular sideground, but I think with a better GMAT score, this is a strong candidate.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think that it's great that they're retaking the test. I do think that extracurriculars wise, I would need to know more. It sounds like they're doing some stuff now. Maybe they have some other interests and things, but, yeah, I think that this is a strong candidacy. They're also underrepresented. So that's going to give them a little bit of an edge, I would argue. I think that even in the new era, it'll come out some way in the essay or something that may help them a little bit, but I think it's great for them to retake the exam. That may influence not only which end of the spectrum of schools they're targeting, they land at, but also the amount of scholarship dollars they receive if they get any.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: And if they are underrepresented, then one of the issues is round one and round two, it shouldn't matter. So they can have a pretty aggressive round one strategy if they choose to do so, knowing that they can make adjustments ahead of round two, which isn't the same luxury that, let's say, an over represented profile from India might have.
So, yeah, I think they could be a little aggressive in the first round.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. And I think the birds are agreeing with you in the background there. I hear you.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: I know. I got a load of birds singing. Well, I would. I wouldn't say they're singing that. They're shouting at me.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Awesome. So, okay. So, yeah, again, I think this person, obviously, very strong candidacy. I want to wish them the best of luck and thank them for sharing their profile, but let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two.
So our second candidate this week has just two schools on the target list, and those schools are both in New York City and they are Columbia and NYU. This person also wants to start in the fall of 25. They've had a long career in tech. They've actually been working for twelve years. This is a 34 year old candidate. They are thinking about consulting or maybe more tech after business school or even entrepreneurial kind of ideas that they have. They took the GMAT focus edition and secured a 675, which if you're keeping score at home, I think is a 720 or a 730, depending on their percentile. They have a 3.36 gpa from undergrad. They're located in New York and want to stay there, which is why they're kind of focused on these two schools. It's actually a little bit more complex too, in that their most recent work experience has been been as a software engineer. They've actually been four years, last four years at a software company, Fortune 500 company. They were promoted, but they lost the job in March of this past year. So they were laid off. They are on a extracurricular. They're on a board for a nonprofit that involves therapy for children and also do some volunteering as a basketball and soccer coach. They studied chemistry as an undergrad. And they point out that they are first generation college student. They're actually vietnamese american male. Now, the other thing they shared with us is that they've had some gaps in their employment. So they've been working for twelve years, but apparently there have been some gaps in there, not just the recent gap because of a layoff, but also some gaps due to chronic illness. And they don't really go into a lot of detail on that. But, you know, you had some dialogue with them. Alex, what do you make of this? This is a very unusual candidate in that they're targeting just two schools. They're 30, 412 years of experience, experience maybe some illness issues that they've had to deal with. So what do you make of this?
[00:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think this candidate's going to face quite a lot of challenges in the admissions process.
Given that they're a little bit more mature than the typical candidates. They're really going to have to justify that. Why now? Why MBA sort of narrative.
And, you know, clearly they've had to overcome quite a lot of hurdles to get to where they are today. And I believe reading between the lines in terms of the apply wire posts, that they've probably had some really good experience the last four years that's really helped them sort of identify a clear pathway forward based off of where they think they can go, the value of the MBA, and so forth. So I get all that, and I get why they're looking at top tier MBA programs to get them there. I just think because they're going to be slightly unorthodox in the process. It will be challenging, obviously, overcoming the chronic illness. They're going to have to address that, whether it's in the optional essay or in other aspects of the candidacy, the application material, so that ADCOM can fully appreciate how far this candidate has come and the challenges that they've had to overcome and faced and so forth.
So they'll certainly need to be very transparent about that and tackle that up front.
But even if they do an effective job at that, the schools have got to think, well, this person's 34, they'll be graduating when they're 36.
Does everything still make sense for them in terms of their goals and so on and so forth? This current situation of getting laid off, I think is quite unfortunate because it's probably completely unrelated to their past sort of chronic illness issues.
But, you know, the question also becomes gray and should they try to find a job? What should they do over the next six months to one year before they're starting a full time MBA if they continue along this path? Because if they start a new job, they're only going to be there for a short period of time.
So how do they justify that with their new employer? How do they articulate that in their MBA applications?
To me, that's quite a challenge to overcome if they have the wherewithal and resources to be able to stay out of the work force for a period of time, but do some really good high level volunteer work that enables them to continue to grow, but enables them to pursue a passion they're particularly interested in, potentially related to their chronic health issues that they've obviously had a lot of experience with. Maybe that's a route to take that becomes more palatable for the ADCoM and so forth. But they will still face this challenge that they're an older candidate. Graham. So I guess my point is I think they've probably got some really good work experience under their belt, but they've got to overcome this challenge that they're an older candidate and tackle this issue also of this recent layoff.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a lot here. I mean, I say on the pros side, I would say, wow, first generation Vietnamese, kind of an interesting storyline. The numbers are quite strong, 675 on the GMAT focus. As I said, is maybe as high as a 730. So it's solid 336, not a bad GPA, as you say, the most recent work experience. And they probably had some good experiences. They talked a lot about how they've made this move from software engineer to getting some exposure to clients and managing people. And that's what sparked this idea to get the MBA. They really like that aspect. So there's this nice progression that we often see with someone going from the technical to the managerial and wanting the MBA to help kind of complete that sort of transformation. So all that makes sense. But then I keep coming back to the idea that, yeah, they're older, they've had some gaps, they've battled some illness and things. And so you do wonder, is this the right fit for sort of a full time MBA? And, you know, sort of arguably Columbia and stern both being sort of top ten MBA programs in the world. So I think one of the things that jumped out at me is I was wondering about, Stern has that part time MBA program that might allow this candidate to continue to gain work experience while pursuing the degree which is more common in their age group.
With Columbia, they don't really have an executive MBA, but I might argue that this candidate isn't really, they don't have the managerial experience that you normally associate with an executive MBA. So they do have, however, at Columbia, the j term where you start in January and there's no internship, it's a bit more of a straight shot for people who kind of know what they want to do and are a bit more seasoned. So that's possible, although I recognize they are trying to pivot a little bit into like consulting. So it's challenging. I also just wondered if they're willing to go full time, why does it have to be in New York? Usually if someone's willing to drop everything and go to school, then they might want to cast a slightly wider net and consider schools like, I don't know, maybe Cornell or Rochester. There are many other options, even in the New York area, Yale, that they might cast a wider net for. I do think they need a bit more variety in terms of the competitiveness of the schools they're targeting. Because right now, as I said, these are top ten type programs and it could be an uphill battle. They want to reapply, as they pointed out. So.
So, yeah. So lots to discuss here. Hopefully this is food for thought for them. I do want to thank them for sharing their profile, but anything else on this one, Alex? No.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: I think your last point though is very important. If they do want to go this full time route.
Casting that wider net, top 16, top 20 is probably something to look at.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three.
So our final candidate for this week has seven schools on the target list. They, too, are going to be applying very shortly and trying to start in the fall of 25. They've got Berkeley, Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Kellogg, Chicago, and Wharton on the list. This person has been working in consulting for kind of a smaller boutique firm in Seattle, and they're debating whether they want to go to sort of MBB after business school or straight into tech as, like, a product manager. I think that latter course is their preferred path, or at least the one they think might be more palatable to schools. They have a GrE score of 331. And I actually looked at the splits, and their breakdown on the test was quite impressive. I mean, they had a, you know, 91st percentile quant, 89th percentile verbal. So not only is the overall score really high, but that they did quite well in each section. They have four years of work experience. Their undergraduate GPA was a 4.0 perfect located in Seattle. As I said, this is a. They note they are a white male consultant, and they were named valedictorian of their liberal arts college from once they graduated. And again, they say that they work in management consulting, but that it's a bit of a. More of a small firm. And they were thinking about tech product management. So, Alex, what do you make of this candidacy? I mean, yeah, they're kind of wondering if they're, you know, because they think they're overrepresented. They're worried about that a little bit. So what's your take?
[00:24:37] Speaker B: I think it's a very, very, very strong candidate.
I really like, you know, someone graduates top of their class. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how big their class is, but that tells you something about the quality of the candidate right there. And quite frankly, I don't even care what type of university that is. I mean, when you're the best, you're the best. And smart, I mean, and it requires application, dedication, perseverance, as well as smarts to be the valedictorian. And then they started talking about some of the other stuff they did in college, you know, creating apps, doing Python, or, you know, all this sort of geeky stuff, which really sounded super interesting, especially if they want to be in tech product management. They've got to show that they can, you know, that stuff is important to them. So they designed and built apps when they were an undergrad and stuff. Even though it was liberal arts, it was a bit stem focused. I mean, to me, there's a lot to like here. They're also a committee member, sort of junior board member of a non profit leading fundraising. Their biggest. I think their biggest concern is they're not MBB consulting. Currently small boutiques. So how do you. How would you address that, Graeme?
[00:25:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm actually not so worried about that. I mean, I think it's possible that the committee won't know the firm that they're working for if it's very small. But I think as they talk about their work experience on the resume and in the data forms and the recommenders write about it or maybe it pops up in essays, it'll be clear that they've presumably had some nice accomplishments. And you also were talking about their outside activities and they also said they're an active outdoorsman. They've summited Mount Rainier, Mount Whitney, they do long distance running. So they seem. Yeah, this is a well rounded, interesting candidate, which, you know, you would expect that with a liberal arts grad, but.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: I'd like to hang out with this. This guy.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: You know, it seems like you read about, so. And to me, likeability and that kind of stuff is going to be important too. But there's just. So I think this, like you say, well rounded, super smart, done well, gets involved in extracurricular, outside stuff in terms of being a board member.
Yeah, I think they really should be aiming high.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Yeah. So the only thing I want to ask you is they talk about this debate between pitching a I want to go to MBB after business school versus I want to get into tech product management. And I know we've talked on the show about how a lot of people get into tech product management, have kind of a tech background or an engineering background, and this person does not, although their undergraduate degree, I believe, was, it's liberal arts. But they did study finance and they mentioned product management, too, I think.
I wonder if you think that, like, what do you think is the right path for them in terms of, you know, what they're going to describe in their essays and stuff.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think this is the case where, you know, highlighting the fact that they designed and built apps as an undergrad and so they're familiar with the tech space. I think they designed them in Python. I forget if they actually revealed that. But, you know, honestly, this person probably has the wherewithal to be able to go into tech product management based off of that type of experience. And I think the ADcOM, if they highlight it correctly, will recognize that.
And, you know, I'm always of the, of the opinion to try to be as sort of transparent and authentic about your goals as you can not try to create goals that you think will just simply resonate with the ADcoM.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:20] Speaker B: If they had just purely liberal arts, you know, like art history major Graham, you know what that's like. If they were purely art history and hadn't done any tech work or experience in their lives. Yeah, I would say, look, consulting is your short term goal and then transitioning into tech PM. But I think this person's probably got the wherewithal to be able to show that this is a realistic path.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And then the only other thing they had asked us about their GRE score. So they have a 331 with the splits, as I described earlier. And they were saying, oh, it's not perfectly balanced. I could probably get a higher score. My view is that that would be a waste of time. Like, 331 is excellent. Move on and focus on the apps and getting your stuff together. But that's my take. Do you agree to.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: I agree. My only exception always is if they know with just a little bit of dedication, you can improve a score. A better score is always better than a lower score, even at the very top of the tree. So, yeah, I wouldn't be sweating all summer prepping to drive up the score of two points.
[00:29:31] Speaker A: Right?
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Yeah, 331. It's already very good. But if it would require me to just dedicate a couple of weeks of my extra time to move the score, then, yeah, why not?
[00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And then the only last piece of thing, last piece of advice for this candidate, I would say, is their list as it now stands, and with good reason, is very top heavy. I mean, it's really. They have all m seven schools on here and then plus Berkeley, which is like the 8th school for some people. Right. So it's, it's really a top heavy list. Now, they did mention they may look at foster as well, maybe in round two, but they also said they kind of want to leave Seattle for business school and then come back after. So they're sort of conflicted on that. You mentioned Ross as an option that they might consider as well, kind of more top 16 to sort of spread their odds a bit. I think. Yeah, they could probably take a, let's apply in the first round to a bunch of these, and then if things don't go their way, I guess they could always add some schools in the second round, whether it's foster or Ross or even Duke or UCLA, these are all schools that are good with product management type roles post MBA. So any of those would work?
[00:30:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, this is a white male consultant, so they're a bit worried they might be a little bit over represented, but I don't really buy that much.
[00:30:48] Speaker A: I'm less worried about that in this current era where domestic candidates are a little bit in demand. So I think they'll be okay.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, they'll be okay. So have an aggressive round one strategy and then come back in round two. Certainly Foster can go into round two.
Foster's great program, but I think they can aim high m seven or whatever in round one.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Yeah, that seems fair. All right, well, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Hopefully all this advice helps them to plan their summer and their application strategy. Alex, thanks for picking these out. Always interesting topics that we get to discuss on the show. And, yeah, I mean, we're now full on into the next season. I would argue with, you know, Harvard's essays are out. Everyone's off to the races, working on their apps. So if you're writing or prepping for a test, best of luck to you if you're tuned in. And, yeah, Alex will do it all again next week.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: Very good. Best luck, everyone. Stay safe.
