Episode Transcript
[00:00:15] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm your host, Graham Richmond. And this special episode of the show is about a unique program on offer within the University of North Carolina's Kenan Flagler mba. It's called the Vetter Dean's Fellow Program. And if it's not already on your radar radar, it probably should be. MBA students in the Vetter Dean's Fellows at UNC get specialized leadership programming, personalized career support and executive coaching, all kinds of networking opportunities, and a funded global immersion elective that helps them to kind of broaden their cultural intelligence and global perspectives. To help shed some light on this program, I'm pleased to be joined by two very special guests from UNC Kenan Flagler. Let me tell you a little bit about each of our guests and then we'll bring them onto the show. Show.
So first we have Sarah Perez. She is the Associate Dean of MBA Programs at UNC Kenan Flagler. She's been with the school for nearly 15 years serving in multiple roles. And Sarah has also worked in the corporate sector and with another business school during her 20 plus year career. She holds an MBA in International Marketing from Thunderbird and a BA from University of Massachusetts at Amherst. Welcome Sarah. It's great to have you on the show.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: It's great to be here, Graham.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Thank you.
Second, we're also going to hear today from Anusha Raman. She is a current second year student at UNC Kenan Flagler where she's part of the Vetter Dean's Fellows Program. And beyond her studies, Anousha is really active in the Kenan Flagler community, serving as the Executive VP of the Healthcare Club and holding leadership roles in the Consulting club and within the Vetter Dean's Fellow Program. She's also the Executive Vice President for the Consortium for Graduate Study and Management.
And Anusha studied neuroscience and psychology as an graduate at Tulane. Prior to business school, she held research roles in both the healthcare and business domains with Brown University and Boston University. So welcome Anusha. It's great to have you as well.
[00:02:11] Speaker C: Thank you for having me.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: So I want to dive right in because I, you know, I have to just be honest with you. I did not know about the program, the, the Vetter Dean's Fellows Program. And so I'm, you know, just been really interesting doing some research and getting a chance to talk this through with both of you. So we're going to start with Sarah and I wondered if we could just kind of start from the beginning and you know, I, I Tried to give a quick overview, but I' love for you to give us an overview on what the Vetters Dean Fellow program is. How is it sort of distinctive within the unc, you know, kind of MBA program and what's the vision behind the program like, who is it designed for?
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Sure, I'll give a quick overview. You did a nice job with that, Graham. But the Vetters Dean's Fellows program is designed to enhance the student's personal and leadership development, their career preparation, and strengthen global perspectives through targeted programming as the students progress through their MBA journey. The journey is very intentional. The program is very intentional and it includes networking with business leaders in small settings, strengthening global perspectives through a global business experience, and specific and intentional leadership development program targeted to each student's specific goals.
It is a selective program and approximately 10% of full time MBA students at Kids and Flagler are invited to be part of this special program every year.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: Two things that I'd highlight that make it distinctive within the UNC Keenan Flagler MBA program.
The first is the cohort structure.
We think this is really special and it makes a very, very strong impact for students that are going through the program.
Approximately 20 students travel through the program together through the MBA journey. So they kick off the program in a small setting prior to orientation where they get to know each other really well. They get to think about how they're going to progress through the MBA program. They do some self reflection, they do some assessments about their strengths and weaknesses and where they're going to focus their energies as they travel through the program.
So the veteran Dean's Fellows are very much part of the larger full time MBA program. They have this additional programming and cohort that is tailored to them and their goals.
The second thing I'd highlight is that all better, Dean's Fellows received some level of fellowship funding ranging from partial to full fellowships, along with the programming that we've talked about, the executive coaching, the networking events, the global immersion experience that are all funded as part of the experience.
And we've been incredibly fortunate to have Steven Debbie Vetter's support for this incredible program.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: So I appreciate you kind of shedding light because that was one of the things that was really, I was really curious about is like how, how is this group, how many are in the group and how is it sort of constructed within the broader mba. So it sounds like a really interesting opportunity to have that like small, close knit cohort. I do want to turn to Anusha now and I want to have a couple of questions for you that are going to probably dig a little bit deeper here on this. And that is, you know, first of all, big picture. What drew you to UNC Kenan Flagler? But then more specifically, like, why this program within the program and. Yeah, what did. What resonated with you about the Dean's Fellows program?
[00:05:20] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a good question. I'll start off with what drew me to UNC Kenan Flagler? And honestly, it was the people. I toured UNC and I was immediately drawn to students. I was drawn to the culture. I loved that no one tried to ever sell me on the school for them. It was really important that I found a school that provided that really strong fit. And it worked. I found a really strong fit with the student body. I love the amazing faculty. The staff are amazing.
And why the Vetter Dean specifically? I was looking for an opportunity where I could really focus on myself. I wanted to grow personally, I wanted to grow professionally, and I wanted to do so in an environment where I felt both challenged and nurtured at the same time. The Vetter Dean's community was exactly that. I got extra support with leadership development. I got to really hone in on what did I want my MBA experience to be. What were the things like Sarah said that I really wanted to work on over my two years here?
And I really wanted to bond with like minded individuals who centered impact in everything that they did.
And that individualized executive coaching combined with that cohort was exactly what I was looking for. And I've been very happy with my experience here.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: And just like mechanically, this is something that you like while you were applying, you were made aware of and then you kind of, you had to sort of tick a box in the application saying you wanted to be considered for this. Is that how it worked?
[00:06:49] Speaker C: Yes. So when I was submitting my application to unc, I read about the program and there were application essays that I submitted in addition that like demonstrated my interest for the program.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Okay. And we'll talk a little bit more about any advice you might have on that. But let's turn back to Sarah for now because I want to learn a little bit more about how the program is sort of set up. And, you know, particularly Sarah, I'm kind of curious to know about the leadership development components of the program. So, you know, what are those components? And also the structure and purpose of the executive coaching that we've been talking about. So how do these things work?
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah, excellent question. The leadership development component is critical for the better Dean's Fellows Program. And I'll start with the specific leadership coursework.
That coursework is intentionally designed and positioned throughout the MBA journey to be delivered when it is most needed. So there are five touch points that our better Dean's fellows are exposed to as they travel through their two years in the program. I mentioned that pre orientation retreat where we kick off the program and start to talk about the journey, start to think and plan about what the students want to accomplish over the two years that they're with us in the MBA program and beyond.
Then in spring of the first year, they get back together in some significant programming that is preparing for the internship. So we have a course really with our organizational behavior faculty that really focuses on preparing for the internship. What do students want to accomplish? How do they need to think about heading into their internship? What are the different dynamics and what do they need to look for to be successful in that internship? Internship so very, very intentional on where they are in the journey and what is the next step and the support they need to be successful when they come back and follow the second year. The third touch point is focused on returning from the internship. So what did they learn on the journey? What did they learn in their internship? What were they exposed to? What did they like? What could they improve and thinking about? Are they heading back to the same company the following year after graduation or are they heading back into re recruiting? And those are all really important things that are discussed in this third touch point in the program.
In spring of the second year, they have a leadership seminar with the Dean where the Dean will focus on leadership topics that are relevant to business in the moment. And the students have the opportunity to work through those leadership topics directly with the deep Dean.
Executive coaching is woven into each of these leadership programming experiences and offered at different points throughout the journey where we know students can benefit from that additional individualized support.
So it's not just the coursework, but the executive coaches travel with the students and are involved in these specific touch points to support the students.
Concerns, opportunities, things that they want to discuss and dive into further. So it's a very, very important part of the journey.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I mean, this just sounds great. I mean, you know, I did an MBA many years ago and I didn't have quite this level of. It's almost like sort of concierge leadership, you know, development. It's really sounds pretty amazing. Anusha, I want to turn to you because you've been doing all this and you're now in your second year, so you've had a Few of these touch points. You've had some executive coaching. Just tell us a little bit like what's that? Like what, what has it been like to experience this leadership programming and you know, any examples of growth in the way that you think or maybe your executive presence would love to know.
[00:10:25] Speaker C: Yeah, the overall programming has been amazing. I think the most impactful experience for me has been that leadership development class that Sarah was talking about where we learned to think really critically about our future, our leadership style and our role on a team. This was an opportunity for me to engage with the other students in the class. So the rest of my cohort and they all have amazing leadership experiences and that opportunity to grow as a leader through discussion and interaction I thought was unmatched.
This was the class where I broke down a lot of the boundaries and barriers that I had for myself and I was able to strengthen those connections with other VDFs in my class.
I think the executive coaching sessions for me were also tremendously helpful. Helpful for that one on one guidance and the individual, more personal questions that I had. I grew the most in learning how to manage up and how to take up space, which I talked through with my executive coach about after my internship. So in the fall after I came back, having never worked in corporate prior to my internship, I was able to talk through a lot of things with my executive coach, debrief my experiences and really just understand how to navigate some of those differences and those challenges. Especially after I'm going back to the my internship company after graduation. So going back to the same space, how can I do things differently while still being me?
[00:11:54] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. I love the idea of being able to talk to someone about, you know, right after the internship to be able to say, well, this is how it went at work over the summer and you know, I'm going to be returning and you know, here's what I need to kind of what I want to work on.
Sarah, a little bit of a follow up for you.
You know, now we're talking about a little bit about career planning and stuff. So like how did the coaching and even the curriculum support the fellows with respect to their career goals? I mean, is that you mentioned at the very beginning. There's a lot of reflection during that retreat. But how, yeah, how are these things sort of tied into helping grads, you know, in this program land the jobs that they want?
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. So the tailored leadership development coursework and coaching is designed to provide the students with the greater self awareness, the focus, the direction, enhanced leadership capabilities that Anusha Just talked to managing up, taking up space, understanding some of the dynamics that are happening as they're experiencing their internships and preparing for the, you know, the, the career beyond the mba.
But from day one, it is about the career. So we're talking about leadership, but we're also talking about the career and how that is part of what they're learning and focusing on as they go forward. So every single touch point is focused on career, career development, how it will impact them, and really honing in on where their strengths are and what they want to do and what they want to accomplish as they head out into the next step in their career.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Okay, got it. Yeah, it just sounds like a really good, just another perk here to really help people land on their feet and get the, you know, kind of reach their goals.
I want to stay with you, Sarah, and ask a question about, you know, both of you talked about there's this global immersion piece and the cohort experience.
And so, Sarah, like, what is the purpose and design of this global immersion elective and how does it support, you know, the, the students and their kind of leadership capabilities?
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Right. So the global immersion elective happens in toward the end of the second year. So the better Dean's Fellows have been together for the entire MBA experience experience.
They've been preparing and honing their leadership skills, thinking about what they want to do next. And then this global immersion experience happens toward the end almost as a wonderful capstone. Right. So it's specially designed experience that exposes students to how business is done in dynamic international markets. While on the trip, they engage with local, local companies, they gain perspectives from local experts and business leaders. Leaders. And of course, they participate in cultural experiences in the countries that they're visiting. This is all done together with their cohort. So again, they've gotten to know each other extremely well over their almost two years together as Vetter Dean's Fellows. And then they embark on this global experience together, which just deepens the network, deepens the, you know, each other's learning and supporting each other as they're going through each phase.
So really they, you know, they're in a completely different setting.
And the idea is to challenge students in many ways.
They learn new culture, they get a deeper understanding of challenges faced in these regions, and really an opportunity to reflect on how things could be applied in their own organizations as they progress. Right. So I think the capstone piece of this is really, really impactful. And then doing it together adds a whole different dimension.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: Yeah, And I will say, I mean, it does it's starting to feel, the more I learn about this, it really feels like you have this amazing network within a network by being part of this program.
But Anusha, now I have to ask, so we're not done with your second year and that means you haven't yet gone on your global immersion elective. So I gotta ask, like, what are you looking forward to? Are you able to share what you're going to be doing and where, like where you're going and just more broadly, like what are you looking forward to? And yeah, just let's start there.
[00:15:47] Speaker C: I don't know specifics. Sarah would know more about the specifics, but I think what I'm most looking forward to is that continued bonding piece. So these are people I've spent at this point will have spent about like 16 months with. And so the leadership development class was a great opener. But being in South Africa, being on the ground in a new culture, learning from amazing business leaders, that is going to be unmatched matched. Doing that with my amazing cohort I think is just, it's going to be a mind bending experience.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And I feel like, you know, you mentioned it's a small group, so you guys must know each other really well. So you do know where you're going. Just not sure yet. I mean they're probably still working. Obviously we're early in the year for listeners, everyone knows that. So this is not until, what is it, April or something that you go on this or sometime at the end of the academic year.
[00:16:32] Speaker C: It'll be in March, over spring break in March.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah, so, so more to come. But I did want to ask you also, just like what, like what makes the cohort experience, I mean, unique and impactful. I mean you're, you're talking about, you know, you seem to be really excited about getting to spend time with them and go, you know, going to South Africa, etc. But what is it? I mean, is it just the fact they've had all this sort of special coursework together?
Do you feel like there's a. Just a kinship that's been developing? And I mean, anything you want to say about the other folks in the program? Like, it seems like it's a pretty special group to be admitted in the first place. Right.
[00:17:06] Speaker C: I think there are two big things here. For one, these are people who've grown with me since I started, since orientation. These are people who really took their professional development in their own hands and were like, I'm going to capitalize on every single opportunity that I have, which means we have really, really bonded. I have shared some of my scariest moments during the internship or in past careers. I have shared things that I want to be learning and growing through and all of that. But second to that, these are people who share my deep desire to make a profound impact in the world. These are people who don't see business as just me and the firm. These are people who think of how can I use business to leverage and create some sort of really just deep impact in the world and create something that's sustainable across years of humanity and business.
So I think when you're with those sort of like minded individuals who understand the power of business, then you just, you create those really strong bonds and then when you go abroad and you bring in that cultural component and you get to learn from, like Sarah said, other business leaders around the world and then bring that back to your company, your industry, you can create a lot of sustainable change.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. Appreciate you kind of shedding more light on this. And I'm definitely, it's resonating really powerful. I mean, I just feel like, you know, one of the reasons that Clear admit, you know, in the first place, focuses on management education is we really believe in it as a force for good. And this just feels like, you know, really underlining that with regards to how this program is structured.
I want to stay with you and just ask you, you know, a lot of people listening to the show are in the act of considering an MBA and applying to business school and so they're mostly worried about how do I get in and like how am I going to write all these essays, et cetera. So do you have any advice for people exploring Kenan Flagler, UNC and the fellows program, like what would you say.
[00:19:13] Speaker C: To them for the MBA and Kenan Flagler in general?
The advice I love to give is there's no such thing as a non traditional student. We think that MBAs are full of people with backgrounds in finance and invest in banking. But I've sat in, in many of these classrooms where my background is unique. But I'm not the only person who doesn't have an experience in corporate or business or anything like that. So give it a shot. If you want to work on your leadership and your management and if you want to understand how the business world works, then the MBA will be the right fit for you. And if you are looking for that collaborative and team oriented environment, then UNC will be the right fit for you. In terms of the Vetter deans, yes. Shoot your Application in. Shoot your shot. I applied on a whim because I resonated with the mission and the impact. I truly did not think that I would be accepted, but I did.
And I think that's sort of the beauty of this program. It is such a diverse group of people, all with diverse and unique backgrounds. So there is no quote, unquote, right fit. If you're not sure, just throw an application and it doesn't hurt.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. Really good advice. And I assume that you did. You know, you mentioned you went and visited, but did you also. It sounds like you had some discussions with current students at the time and. And that you mentioned that they weren't, like, selling you, they were just, you know, welcoming you.
But. Yeah. Would you advise? I mean, I guess not everyone can get to campus, but obviously, I know the school makes students available to talk, even via Zoom or whatever. Right. So is that a key part of this, is talking to people?
[00:20:48] Speaker C: Yeah. We have ambassadors on the website, so I'm also an ambassador.
And you can reach out to anyone online.
They're more than happy to chat. Schedule a Zoom call. Schedule a phone call. And if you do find yourself in the Chapel Hill area, it is beautiful here, but there are also tours that you can do in person as well.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Okay, good to know. Sarah, I want to turn to you. You know, we got Anusha's perspective as an applicant, but, you know, you're on the administration side. You know, what qualities does the admissions team look for in strong candidates for this particular program? Because it is a selective group, as we've heard.
[00:21:23] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: So we are looking to attract exceptional candidates, Truly, who demonstrate deep commitment to their personal growth. Like Anusha said, students that are willing to take the professional development in their own hands and push to do better, who want to grow together.
We look for students that showcase resilience, adaptability, and grit. These are traits that employers are seeking in all MBA grads. But in addition to that, we want students that have a desire to make a positive impact through business, who truly seek to enrich their organizations and their communities in many different ways. That can be through mentorship, that can be through leadership. That can be through service, or all of the above.
And as students apply to the program, I encourage everyone to check that box on the application and consider that there are a few short essays specific to the Better Dean's Fellows Program. But we look at all applicants for this program, and as Anusha said, there is no perfect applicant. We want a group of students that are committed again, to their professional and personal growth and want to be part of a cohort where you push each other, you work together and all come out ahead.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: And you know, we mentioned ticking the box to apply. One thing I just want to underline here because my understanding is that there's no additional cost to be part of this program. And in fact, the global immersion where you're going to go, you know, travel somewhere, is funded. Right. So for, for everyone. So it feels like, you know, some business schools, they have these side programs but it's like, oh, you've got to pay a lot of extra to even join. And so this feels like a really open to all kind of thing.
[00:22:59] Speaker B: Yes, it is. And all the programming that we talked about is included as part of the veteran Dean's Fellows program.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Okay, excellent.
I guess one thing I wanted to kind of just stepping back, I know we've been doing this deep dive into the specifics of this program, but I just wondered, Sarah, if you would comment on, and I actually would love to hear from both of you on this, but we'll start with Sarah. What is it that sets Kenan Flagler apart as a place to develop future leaders in your mind?
[00:23:25] Speaker B: Thanks for that question. So leadership has always been a cornerstone of our full time MBA program and that is nothing new. But it's exciting because we have completely redesigned our full time MBA program and students joining us this coming fall will embark on a very different experience.
A major piece of that is leadership and leadership development.
As I said, it's always been a cornerstone of our full time MBA program. But leadership is needed more than ever.
That includes the better Dean's Fellows program and the better Dean's Fellows leadership programming. But we are enhancing this leadership programming for all of our MBA students at Kenan Flagler.
Developing leadership competencies are incredibly important and they will continue to be important as we go forward as business. Business needs change. As we think about more technology, as we think about AI and the changing, changing landscape. Scape strong leadership skills are more important than ever. And we are truly committed to continuing to develop business leaders for the future.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: Okay, Anush, anything jumping out to you in terms of when you think about what sets UNC Keen and Flagler apart?
[00:24:31] Speaker C: I think when I was looking at the schools, I think what stuck out for me was that team oriented perspective that's pervasive in everything that we do. I wanted a school culture where I could lean on those around me. And honestly, the Carolina team spirit here is unmatched. I drank the Kool Aid. I've seen that environment through my class experiences, I've seen it with recruiting. I've never once felt like I was competing with my first years for a job. I always felt like I could support them, they could support me. We would prep each other, going into the exact same interview for the exact same job. And I don't know that you get that everywhere because for us it is. There is no I in team. To sound corny, it is that we will do it as one and we will do it together. And that is. I saw it in my application, I see it now and I'm excited to give back once I graduate.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So it sounds like a lot of good, good things are happening at unc. Kenyon Flagler. I mean, you know, the kind of redesign of the curriculum, this really unique program with, with regards to Vetters and also I. Sarah, to put you on the spot, isn't there a new building? I feel like I, I've heard about a new. Is it open yet? And like maybe just. Could you say a few words about that? I know you're probably been living through construction, but it's done right or it's opening soon.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: It is very soon. It is coming very soon and we're very excited about it. Yes. We've been in construction zone for about two, two years.
But the. The building is scheduled to open in January. Classes will start in January.
We have already had a ribbon cutting ceremony. It is still a construction zone, but very much close to completion. It is an absolutely fabulous building.
Very much focused on the future of business. Very, very student oriented.
Lots of opportunities to congregate, to interact.
Just a completely different experience, probably in ways that we haven't even imagined yet. So we're very excited about the new building and for students to be able to experience that firsthand.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And Anusha, I'm guessing you are too because you're going to get to, you know, at least get a taste of it for the final part of your program, which is cool.
[00:26:33] Speaker C: Sneak peek for all my classes in mod 3 and 4. They're all in Bell Hall.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: Nicely done.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: There you go.
So I. Yeah, and I will say I do think that the reason I mentioned that is just because I do think that in tandem with the redesign of the curriculum and the special, the Dean's fellows to have this new facility just feels like everything is really, oh gosh, very forward thinking and ready for what's to come, which is always a kind of ever changing landscape with AI et cetera. So it sounds like a great time to be doing all this.
Thank you so much. Sarah and Anousha, I really appreciate you making time to join us today because there's no way I could have talked about this program without having your help.
So, yeah, really appreciate both of you making time. Sarah and Anusha, thanks so much for doing this.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: We want everyone to know about this program. So great opportunity. We appreciate you.
[00:27:23] Speaker C: Thank you for having me.
[00:27:24] Speaker A: Sure. All right, well, that's a wrap on this special episode of the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. Thanks for listening. And please remember to rate and review the show wherever you listen. Stay tuned for more episodes each and every week.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: Sat.
