Episode Transcript
[00:00:15] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this special episode of the show is all about making the most of your MBA. I know that we spend like 90% of our time here at Clear Admit talking about how to get into top business schools and but for this show we're actually going to explore the paths, possibilities and pivots that an MBA can provide when it comes to careers.
As is my habit when tackling a big important topic like this, I've invited a special guest to the show, Christine Murray, who is the Associate Dean for Georgetown McDonough Career Services.
Christy is responsible for career and corporate development initiatives across all full time and part time MBA degree programs, graduate degree programs and undergraduate degree programs at Georgetown. McDonough, 20 plus years of corporate and higher education experience including roles with John Hopkins and in the asset and property management sectors. She holds an Ms. In Organizational Counseling from Johns Hopkins University and a BS in Social Work from Miami University, Ohio. Christie, welcome to the show.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Graham. I'm delighted to be here.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: No, it's great that you're able to make some time to join us. I want to dive in right away to some of these questions because I'm really excited to kind of get your take. We don't, it's not often that we're blessed with having like someone from the career side. We, we talk to a of admissions people.
So I'm really excited to kind of dig in.
Now the first question I have for you is we all, we often hear that the MBA is this sort of highly versatile and very powerful degree. You can just sort of do just about anything with it. But I wondered if you could speak to like why that is and why does it continue to hold value today?
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think it's interesting because I was just having a conversation last week with an alum from Georgetown who is from a Fortune 100 company who recruits from us and he mentioned the top skills that he referred to MBA as needing is versatility. So this is certainly a core factor. I kind of see it from three different perspectives. I think generally the Broad Business Foundation. The MBA really equips professionals with a broad set of skills across many industries, roles and stages of one's career. I think the MBA is also industry agnostic. So it's a blend of critical thinking, leadership strategy and analytical tools to equip grads to solve these complex business problems. Lead teams drive innovation and the versatility allows MBAs to pivot not just after graduating from a program, but throughout their career and into different industries from finance to consulting to tech, healthcare and entrepreneurship. And then I think that the functional flexibility an MBA provides really the enduring value given the rapid pace of change in the global economy, enabling both horizontal movement across business functions and vertical advancement up management chains really provides career flexibility as businesses are navigating digital transformations, sustainability changes, and then evolving consumer behaviors. So I think that is what I would add. From the versatility perspective, I think it continues to add value because the MBA doesn't just teach people to respect, respond to trends. I think it teaches people to lead through them. And I think this distinction is notable. It also obviously gives a great network of peers, access to alumni, faculty, global perspectives. I think all of these are invaluable and priceless in a world that really values adaptability, leadership and lifelong learning.
MBA continues, I think, to add value and hold that value because of the curriculum's ability to incorporate some of the emerging business priorities that are needed in the landscape, such as generative AI, digital transformation, sustainability and global business. And I want to just plug Georgetown because Georgetown's curriculum and the MBA has all of this at its core. Yeah, the earnings premium is a big one too. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that.
There's debate about it certainly, but I think we see MBA grads consistently demonstrating higher earnings earning potential throughout their careers.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And I think as someone, you know, I have an MBA and I always think about all the different things that I've witnessed since I've had my MBA in terms of, you know, the Internet becoming like a legitimate thing and, and now with AI and, and things like sustainability and you know, all corporate social responsibility, I mean, all these different things. Yeah, it's such a versatile degree.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: And it's really fantastic. I mean, I, we talk a lot. I can't remember when it was, but recently we're doing a panel with a bunch of admissions officers and we were talking about how if you go to law school or if you go to medical school, we kind of know what you're going to do afterwards. You know, it's really siloed. Right. And business school is just such an open and the world is your oyster kind of thing. So I love that about it.
I do want to say, you know, people who listen to the show and people come to like clearadmit.com they often seem to know what they want to do post mba, so they're applying to business school and they're all saying, oh, I want to work for Apple or I want to do, you know, Consulting at a top firm. But tell me about the role that Career Services plays in helping MBA students shape those paths. Because clearly not everyone does exactly what they were thinking when they're, you know, when they're starting to apply versus when they graduate and go off and get that job. So tell us a little bit about what the role is that you all play.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Sure. I could talk about this all day, so you'll need to reel me in if I start going down a path here. But I think foundationally, we in Career Services provide really thoughtful career curriculum to offer to incoming MBA students. And at Georgetown, we provide this prior to orientation that we build on throughout their first and then second year.
We look at our approach as really customized. I think one of the offerings is one on one career coaching. We have industry practice, practice leads and cover 14 different industries.
And we have trained MBA coaches who've worked in the industry and they are customizing to every student that comes into their office a job search strategy, information and an approach to how that particular student wants to move forward.
We also have a really dynamic peer program that's called the Peer Advisor program.
And these are MBA students that are second years that we recruit and hire and train. And they've recently been in the seat of having come through the internship search and they are invaluable supporters to the first year MBAs who are searching for that summer internship. So we have a mature version of full time professionals who have been in the industry. And then we have recent students who have come from a few years prior to the MBA working in industry. And also recently through the internship search, we also have alumni connections that we help broker and facilitate, such as a micro mentoring program that we run to allow students to hear what alumni's career path have been.
And we have career education days where we work with student organizations to bring in a number of alumni to share what their paths have been and how they would give advice to students going through an mba. We have career treks where we take students to different companies where employers host them and show them a day in the life. And then of course, we do recruitment events with companies, virtual or in person on campus that helps students understand more about the different world of work, sectors, industries, functional roles and career paths they could take.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah, so I'm glad that you went through those things because I think, you know, again with this focus on admissions and getting into business school, sometimes I think people think, oh, I, I get to, I get to school and I just go for my interview with whatever company I'm trying To target. And that's kind of it. And so it's great to know that there are all these different ways that you're supporting candidates. We do hear a lot about MBAs using the degree for career acceleration or pivoting. And I, I don't know that everyone tuned in today really understands exactly what those terms mean. So would you be willing to kind of walk through? Because those seem like the two big paths. Right. You're either kind of accelerating or pivoting. But do you want to tell us a little bit more about those?
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Yes. And I would slightly twist it to say acceleration, advancement and pivoting. I think acceleration I see as both advancing or pivoting in a career. So students coming into an MBA program have a goal in mind. Trust me, I've read a lot of the admissions applications and they have hopes and dreams that may or may not be grounded in the reality of the market or the skill sets that they currently have. And that's where the MBA degree and all the curricular and co curricular resources come in, especially the career center, because we're here to help them make sense and meaning of their goals, partner with them to create a pathway forward and coach them along the way and through all of those ups and downs of rejection, potentially from an application or a company to receiving multiple offers and decision making. So I see all of that in the acceleration realm. I see advancement specifically as building on a career path they've already started, so perhaps they've been working for a couple of years prior to the MBA in a consulting firm, but it's not a top name consulting firm. And then they come into the MBA program to advance in consulting and maybe get a higher brand name on their resume. And then for pivots, I see that as really shifting in multiple ways. Their industry, their function, their job position, their geography, and any other pivots throughout the MBA program.
[00:10:24] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, So I, I do want to dig a little deeper on the pivoting thing because I feel like that's something that comes up a lot because there are a lot of. I already see a lot of engineers applying to business school or people with more, you know, kind of just very kind of niche backgrounds. And they're looking to make a big leap. Right. So we hear about candidates making the, the term that comes up for me is triple jump. You know, they're trying to change their function, their industry, and maybe even their geography too.
Is that something that you see often? And how does the career services team support those kind of big moves? Because I think Those could be kind of daunting.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: They are daunting, they're big, they're bold. And we do see them often. We see a lot of people coming in wanting to do the triple switch. And it is, we see it often. And it's less common to do all three to align perfectly. It takes really tremendous dedication, focus, resourcefulness and stamina throughout the two years to try to switch a functional position as well as an industry if they're coming from education into finance and wanting to do something totally different. And geography, which is where I see a lot of pivoting happening as well. So more frequently I see one to two pivots being successful than all three or more.
For example, I've seen somebody who comes in from an educational background in education or administration and they're able to pivot to a finance or consulting position through a summer internship that converts into a full time role. I see people changing geographies quite a bit and layering that on as well. So it definitely happens often and requires a lot to do all three successfully.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense.
So I wanted to, you know, kind of head down a slightly different path here and talk a little more about the different programs that you all offer. And just because I feel like Georgetown has been a leader in expanding what I'm going to call flexible options for MBA students because you have this flex MBA as well as the Flex online MBA program.
And just for listeners who are not as familiar, I wondered if you could explain like how do these programs differ from a traditional full time MBA and that sort of thing.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. So the full time MBA is typically two years and the flexible MBA is typically a little bit longer. And it requires people not leaving the workforce, they can stay in the workforce. So a flexible MBA allows somebody to continue to be a working professional while they're going to school part time in the evening. So the online program differs than the in person program in that the in person flexible or part time MBA is on campus here at Georgetown and the online program is virtual or asynchronous and it has residencies. So we have online students who come to campus at six select periods throughout their three year degree program.
Both the part time in person and part time or flexible online programs are designed for fully working professionals.
They really allow that flexibility and duration to expedite the program in 24 months or up to five years.
So this allows people to balance work, life and school with their career advancement. The full time MBA is immersive two years where they quit their, their jobs and they come to school in person and are able to be here on campus that entire time.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: Okay. And you know, from your seat in careers, you know what is there a difference in terms of the access that all these students. So you have full time MBA Flex, flex online, they're coming for support, presumably to your office and just wondering like, are there any differences or it's sort of. They have the same access across all these different programs.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: They have the same access and there are differences in that. The flexible or part time working professional students are opt in, meaning they come to us if they are wanting to make a career advancement or pivot the first year. Full time MBA students are very focused on getting an internship between first and second year. And that's something that's not built into the flexible program by nature of the program being for working professionals. So we have crafted a custom designed career curriculum for our flexible and flexible online students.
So they receive a foundational approach to career development, career advancement, and all of the support that our full time students have. And it may be at a little bit different pace just because of the intensity not being quite there. We also at Georgetown allow all of our flexible online and in person MBA students to go through campus recruitment in their third or final year of the program, similar to the second year full time MBA programs. So even though the flexible students don't have that internship built in, they can still go through campus recruitment in their final year of the program.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. And I guess, yeah, you're making a really interesting point, which is that I presume there is a subset of students who are, you know, they're working, they're doing the flex program or one of the flavors of the flex, you know, online or just in person. But they're maybe not looking to change jobs. Right. So they wouldn't need to come to career services necessarily. Right. So there's probably a subset that are, you know, happy in their job and are using the degree just to kind of keep, keep advancing at work kind of thing, correct?
[00:16:09] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. And we have people who unfortunately lose their job throughout the program and we're here to support them and if that's the case too, so we're here for them as they need us. And the other thing is they don't have to be actively searching to be able to use our resources.
They can come in if they, they want to negotiate advancing within their current organization or thinking about taking that next role. So we have coaching and support and resources available for them if they choose to go that route as well.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: Got it. One other Question on this is I'm kind of wondering for those, you know, Flex candidates who are trying to, you know, make a change, are they successfully, you know, making pivots and, you know, are they able to kind of.
Yeah. Sort of leave their current employer and go on to something different? If that's their goal, if they know that kind of coming in and they're really working towards that, I presume that's available to them. And you're seeing it happen to the extent that the candidates are interested?
[00:17:11] Speaker B: Yes, we definitely see that happening. And one of the things that we track are what students do coming through the Flex program after they graduate. And we have seen post mba, so four months after graduation, students report changes in job title and company and in function and industry. So 85% report a change in job title.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: And 52% report a change in company, 45% in function, and 39% in industry. So we are seeing them advancing and pivoting for those who are actively seeking opportunities.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Okay. Wow, those are impressive numbers. I would not have expected that many are, you know, making those kind of changes. That's great.
So one of the things I wanted to ask you about these programs is, you know, I think if I remember correctly, at Georgetown, McDonough, there are regular kind of admissions deadlines, but then once we get to sort of this time of year, things become more rolling. Right. So there are. If. So I don't know if there are any upcoming deadlines or you want to just walk through, because I'm thinking of if someone's tuning in and they're thinking of applying to business school and to one of these programs at McDonough.
What's the calendar like at this point?
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, thanks for asking. Graham and I had a chance to chat with my admissions colleagues prior to the program. So I know that there is a deadline coming up this month on May 22, for international full time candidates.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: We also have a deadline on June 10, 10th, 2025 for domestic full time candidates and international flexible MBA online candidates.
And then on June 25th, we have domestic flex MBA online candidates and flexible MBA candidates.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: And that's the deadline for them. So three deadlines coming up in the next month, month and a half.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Okay, got it. Yeah. And that makes sense, right? Because I guess the international candidates maybe need a little more time, whether it's for a visa or whatever the SORT process might be. So that. That makes sense.
All right, so given your experience leading career services, I. I have to ask. I just, I want to know if you have any advice for students who are heading off to business school? Because a lot of our listeners have just applied and maybe they're going to be going off school in the fall or you know, some of them are going next fall. Right. But whether they're going full time or flex, like any advice? Because I feel like there's this juggle between, you know, knowing what you want career wise and getting to business school and being solely focused on that, you know, versus like enjoying the the program and just, you know, immersing yourself in the academics and the clubs and everything else. So any advice to someone who's going to be heading off to business school when it comes to kind of managing that job search and the demands of the program itself?
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Yes, I will give two very practical pieces of advice and then I'll give a more general piece of advice.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: My practical advice to people who are heading off to business school or thinking about that this summer through fall is to organize your life to layer in school.
So if you are a full time or a part time flexible MBA student, get your house in order, if you will. Right.
Start to think about how you will layer in that time for managing and navigating all the complexities there.
Specifically, if you are going into the flexible online or in person program, tell your employer, tell your direct manager, let them know that you're getting ready to embark on this journey. Hopefully you already have. But if not, I would encourage people to talk with their companies and their employers and their managers about what, what that will look like in their journey. And then if they're a full time MBA student who will be quitting their jobs, obviously they'll have to tell their employer at some point that they will be leaving. Of course those are sort of the important conversations.
And then finally my more practical kind of it's practical, but it's also more of a general piece of advice is they will be building lifelong relationships and coming into an MBA program.
They will meet people and have access to people and resources that they may never have imagined. So it will serve them well in their life and their career. And I think coming in with a curious, open minded attitude is really important.
So that would be another piece of advice.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: So I want to put you a little bit on the spot because I it just again rare that we get someone from careers. There seems to be like a lot of focus on what's that first job after business school if you're pivoting, you know, and not going back to your current employer or in the case of a flex Candidate staying with, you know, their current employer. And I've always felt like MBAs move around quite a bit. Like, it seems like, you know, they graduate, they take that great job, but then often, like a few years later, they're doing something entirely different. Is that, like, accurate? Because I feel like sometimes people overweight on what am I going to do right afterwards? And. And then only to realize that they're probably gonna have three, five, seven jobs over the course of their post MBA career. And so do you have any? I don't know if you guys. I presume you tracked that a little bit, but I'm just curious, do you have a take on that? Cause I'd love to hear your thoughts.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: Yes, I do have a take on that, Graham. Thanks for asking. So I will say we do a huge executive challenge, and it's part of a leadership communications course. We invite 100 plus alumni back to campus to serve as part of this curricular requirement for students in the first year of their MBA program.
And I was sitting at a table at lunch on Friday with two recent MBA grads and I said to them, what would you have told yourself if you were sitting here last year at this time? And they said, we would say it's going to be okay. Because a lot of students put so much pressure and have so much anxiety around that summer internship or that first job after mba.
And honestly, they put a lot of resources into coming into an MBA program in many cases. So that's very understandable. And at the end of the day, it's really a marathon and not a sprint. But in the moment, it feels like a sprint to get that perfect. Absolutely.
Triple change, pivot, advanced geography function, industry. They want it all perfect. And it may not be right after graduation.
And what we see are people pivoting 2, 3, 5, 10 years throughout their career, and the MBA continues to come back and serve them well. And the connection that they built during the MBA program just continues to grow and be more powerful the further they move forward in their career.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: Got it. All right. So one last thing that I wanted to give you a chance to shine some light on, and that is Georgetown and the kind of D.C. metro area. I feel like often we don't talk enough about how business schools often have really deep connections to the kind of community in which they are located. I mean, I think some business schools talk about that all the time. Right. But I just want to. I mean, to me, I mean, Georgetown is sort of the brand in Washington, D.C. when it comes to higher education.
So what. What does that mean for the relationships that you have with employers in the region? And I mean, I, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but it. Doesn't Amazon have an east coast sort of headquarters in the D.C. area? And, and there's, you know, obviously lots of kind of public, private stuff happening with government. And, you know, it just seems like there's a lot going on and that there must be a real power in the brand of Georgetown. McDon on when you're kind of graduating, looking for work.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. A power in the brand. I think Georgetown's values of a leading university with heart are really the guiding force to people, for others care for, how the whole person shows up both inside and outside the classroom, and how our students are prepared for the business world, whether they're going into policy, international development, something with impact, or if they're going into, into consulting, finance, or technology. So Amazon does in Fact have their HQ2 in Crystal City not too far from us. And we hosted one of our alums from that particular property for our micro mentoring event in March.
So he was sharing a lot of advice about what it's like to have a career in Amazon. And we have a ton of relationships both locally in the D.C. area, but we also have relationships in up and down the east coast and throughout the country. I would say we like to consider, you know, acting locally, thinking globally. And so I think that comes into play with opportunities that students have for internships or just hearing from business leaders that come to. To campus to talk that are located not only in this DC area, but who come into DC from a lot of other areas for multiple purposes.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, that's great. And I appreciate you elaborating on that. I recognize, yeah, I mean, Georgetown is global brand, but I also just feel like sometimes people overlook the strength of like the DC Metro too, as a big kind of job market, and lots of opportunities, too. So is there anything else? I know you gotta run and I really appreciate making time, but is there anything else that you'd like our listeners to know about as they kind of prepare for hopefully career success post MBA and stuff?
[00:26:52] Speaker B: I think that there will be times during their journey from preparation, application, to entering to moving through a program and then ultimately graduating from a program where there will be ups and downs? Right about a third of the way in their program, they might think, oh, my gosh, this is very, what did I sign myself up for? And then 2/3 of the way in, they'll be like, all right, this is why I did this. This is totally worth it. I can see the value in this. And then of course, this is the time of year that we get to see all the excitement and celebrations. And here's where I'm going to intern for the summer or here's what I'm doing post graduation. And I'm really thrilled about it. And so I think that just knowing that it's a journey and that there will be ups and downs and at the end of the day, there's a lot of impact and value in an MBA and in the community that the MBA provides as well.
[00:27:51] Speaker A: Okay. Well said.
So, Chrissy, thank you so much for making time to explore all things careers and for illuminating a lot of the different aspects of the offerings at Georgetown McDonough. It was really a pleasure connecting. So, yeah, thanks again for your time.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: Thank you, Graham.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: So that's a wrap for this special episode. Please stay tuned for more episodes of the show each and every Monday. And don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast, wherever you may be listening.
