Episode Transcript
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Welcome to the clear admit MBA admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, August 5, 2024. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: So it's still olympic fever here in Paris. There's been.
It's great. They've set up these giant screen tvs in a lot of the parks so that even if you can't go to the events, there's a nice sort of camaraderie. Last night, there was, I guess, a football match on, I think it was the french women's team playing somebody, and you could just really great vibe in the park, and they have little hut selling beer and other beverages. And so it's kind of a nice thing so far.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I've been following the Olympics. You have a real star in the swimming pool in France.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, that's been kind of cool to see. Cause that was kind of unexpected. And, yeah, there's been a lot of good moments so far. We'll see how it all.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: He seems more popular than Killian. Mpappe, is that correct, Mbappe?
[00:01:16] Speaker A: I would say. Well, especially given France's performance in the Euro Cup, I would say that's fair. Yeah. So, yeah, in any event, it's been crazy to have the Olympics here in Paris, but it's also, you know, the city's pretty vibrant. Most of the prisons are not here, by the way, but it's mostly people have come from elsewhere. Everyone else is. You know, all the people who live here, I think, are on vacation or something.
What's going on in the NBA world?
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very quiet on the wires at this point. I think the odd person appears to be getting off wait lists, but we're getting very close to sort of preterm. I assume Wharton's preterm is pending this week or whenever because it's usually quite long. But, yeah, one or two people will hear. But we are definitely in the midst of sort of ramping up for next season.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: And so forth. Application deadlines. I mean, it's. We're recording this 1 August judge will be first out the gate towards the end of August.
So, yeah, no, things are switching over.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And you now have reminded me something that I never knew when I applied, and that is that preterm, or orientation for these MBA programs often begins many weeks before the first day of classes. And I had no idea. I think I showed up at Wharton. I mean, I knew once I was admitted, but. So I ended up showing up at Wharton. I think it was like almost three weeks before the first day of classes, and you have all these amazing activities and it's kind of like school without real consequences or homework. And so you're taking some classes to get ready for the curriculum and there are all these crash courses and things, but it's just a lot of fun. Yeah. Because you meet your classmates that you know, these kind of learning team retreats. And so that's something that I'm not sure everyone knows about. And also you get to move into, if you're arriving in a new city, you get settled, set up your bank account, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, just keep that in mind. If you're applying to business school, you actually wouldn't be, you know, showing up in the city on the first day of class. You need to kind of get there earlier. And most schools have really great orientation programs, so.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: And I think some of these programs are a little bit optional, but I would absolutely encourage folks to attend the full preterm because it really sets you up so well for the beginning of the overall experience.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Yes.
I didn't have an option. They made me go to the math boot camp for Wharton. As I said, you studied art history. You get here early. Okay.
So that was, that was worthwhile, though. One thing I should mention is we're taking a bit of a break with our events. Like, we just finished the big event series, our webinars and stuff that we've been doing. But there is, the next set of events is already on the horizon in September, so stay tuned. This is not public yet, but we're going to do three events after Labor Day in September. And we have 15 leading MBA programs taking part, including the likes of Columbia and Wharton and Yale and Tuck and Tepper and Duke. And there's a whole list here. I won't go through it, but anyway, so stay tuned for more on that. It should be fun. I had a great time doing the last batch of events this past month, so that was fun.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah. No, very, very good.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Very good in the news category. Alex, I don't know if you saw, but Harvard Business School received its designation as a STEM MBA program, which means that non US citizens who complete the program can stay and work in the United States for up to three years now without needing a special visa, assuming their job can also be characterized as quantitative and STEM oriented. So what do you make of that?
[00:04:54] Speaker B: I think it's absolutely brilliant. Do we have a resource on clear admit that lists all the STEM designated top MBA programs.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: I know we talked about this. I think we might. I'd have to go back. I thought there was an article where we kind of listed them out. I remember Rochester. Simon was, like, the first MBA program to offer that, which is really cool. That was several years ago.
I think it's telling that HBS has done it and that most of the top programs now are stem as well.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: But I think we need to figure that out and make sure, if we do have an article, make sure it's correct. If we don't have an article, let's get one out, because I think this is really important.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Yeah, great idea. So I'll talk to the team if we don't have one, off to check. The other big news was Professor Jennifer Chapman was appointed interim dean of Berkeley. Haas, their past dean, stepped aside after a five year stint. And basically, she's really well known for research into organizational culture. And so she's. This is kind of interesting, right? Because here's a professor at a top business school who studies organizational culture and kind of human resources and things like that, and now she's going to be in charge of kind of running the show. So that'll be kind of interesting to see how it goes. But my understanding is that the faculty and administration are quite excited about this. She has a lot of fans on campus. And the other thing that's funny is that the current chancellor of Berkeley overall the entire university is Rich Lyons, who used to be the dean of the business school for many years and is really well loved. So, if you're working at Haas, you're happy, because from the top of the university down, it's like all Haas people.
So probably some happy people within the Haas group, but, yeah, I don't know if you'd heard about this. We did a little article on it.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's brilliant. And I think she should be very good at her role and having.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: You would think, right?
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And having an ally further up the organization is always gonna be really helpful.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. The other thing, we did run a couple more admissions tips or admissions resources. One of them is just how to make the most of a campus visit. So if you are planning to get to a. A campus and check it out, read that. It'll help you to just get a lot out of your time there. We also did this great sort of chart with all the early and round one deadlines, which we were talking about as a team the other day in the clear admit meeting. That's up. And it's just great to see, it's organized chronologically, and we not only list when a school's deadline is, but we then list when you're going to hear back. We also have links to the analysis of that school's essays in this chart and also a link directly into the school's online application. So pretty good resource that's up on the website site as well. Alex.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Very good. Very good.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: And then before we get into our candidates, I did want to mention we continue to do these admissions director Q and A. So I have a couple of tidbits I wanted to share. We caught up with Donna Swinford over at Chicago booth. Donna is one of my favorite people in this industry, and this is because she is a massive baseball fan. She loves the Chicago Cubs. And so we often talk baseball when we're hanging out. But she did an admissions director Q and A, and we asked her, how do you approach the essay portion and what advice do you have? And she said, and this is really important now because their essays are a bit different. And she says, our essays are fairly open in that they have no word. Max, you are free to use the space how you see fit. You might recall, Alex, they have a minimum word count of 250 for their essays, but no maximum. And she says, that doesn't mean we need you to write a novel, but do take advantage of the opportunity to be yourself and to shed light on why this is the next step you want to take in your professional development. Don't be afraid to dig deep internally. This is often a learning process for people, and they uncover a lot about themselves. We want to know what inspires candidates and how that influences their MBA paths. It may be helpful to have someone else read through your essays and to tell you what they take away from it. Getting an outside perspective on your own words can be very insightful. One other piece of advice I would give is to make sure that you are directly addressing, addressing the prompt or question, as opposed to using the essay as a catch all for everything you want the admissions committee to know about you. So what do you make of that? Alex?
[00:09:07] Speaker B: I hate it.
I mean, you're going to get candidates for sure, but just give me a limit. Give me a constraint in which to write the response to this prompt, and they'll just be really anxious. So, I mean, I think that the, the advice is, you know, what the average length of other top MBA essays are. Just use that as a sort of general constraint.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: So I actually, yeah, we had Donna on one of our webinars. I guess it was like two weeks ago about the essays. And I asked her that exact question because I said, isn't this a bit challenging? And does anyone submit, like, a novel, a book? And she said, she sort of, she said, people don't submit books. But, but she said, look, most essays end up being in the, I think she said five to 700 word kind of range. So I think if she's saying that, that's a little bit of a hint. And she does say in this quote here, you know, don't, we don't need you to write a novel. So.
So there you go.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: And no valor.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: But her other advice is pretty spot on.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think it's good advice. I mean, I believe I remember Donna from way back in my time.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: Yes, you're right. She's been there for a little while. We also talked with Justin Ayer, who is at Boston College at the Carroll School of Management. And I asked him, well, actually, Lauren on our team asked him, tell us briefly about two popular courses at your institution. And I picked this tidbit to share, Alex, because I thought you would find it interesting. So he said, a popular recent course is machine learning and artificial intelligence taught by Professor Peter Vanderwerff. This elective, which builds on the core data analytics one course equips students with advanced tools for applying machine learning in a business context and includes a hands on final project that uses real corporate data. He then said, another popular elective is business analysis survival guide taught by professor Peter Strep. The course teaches students how to ensure the success of it and software projects through effective requirements, gathering, wire framing and understanding agile methodologies without requiring any coding experience. So, Alex, the reason I kind of shared this is because I think it shines a light on something that's fairly unique about Boston College's MBA program, which is that it's data first, very heavy, kind of tech friendly, quant oriented. And I just thought the fact that the two courses that he selected as being really popular sort of really demonstrates that. Right?
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And they better have some great faculty because to teach that machine learning stuff is not trivial. I'm actually doing a little bit of work myself in r and R studio, and I'm going to be showing students, you know, doing a k means analysis on some data.
And, yeah, it's not an easy thing to do.
So hopefully, I mean, obviously they must do it really well because they say it's a really popular course.
Yeah, I would like to take it.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And then the final admissions director that we caught up with was Jennifer Zhao. And she is from Ceibs in China. And this I just thought would be interesting because I think some of our listeners know less about their program. And so I picked the question that Lauren asked her, which is, what is one aspect of your program you wish applicants knew more about? And Jennifer said, CeeB's MBA program distinguishes from other top business schools with its unique feature of blending international exposure with strong chinese market expertise. While offering students immersive exposure to global business topics, the program enhances students understanding of doing business in China through extensive academic and experiential learning opportunities, including China specific cases, China modules, integrated strategy projects, and a thing called China Discovery Week. The in depth knowledge and experience not only strengthen students understanding of the chinese market, but also equip them with practical skills that are highly valued in the global business environment. So, yeah, obviously, if you're interested in doing business in China, Cebes is a great place to be, right? I mean, I can't think of another place that you would want to be, right, besides ceibs for that. So it's great that she's underlining that.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt. But I'd also, I'd also say if you're really interested in social media, then they're probably, they've probably got some really interesting coursework in that regard, because a lot of the trends we see in the west started in China. So live streaming, key opinion leaders, you know, the whole sort of advocacy stuff, social search, that all started in China. Yeah. Really interesting.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Yeah. So we'll keep those coming. There's still more. I know I just saw one come in from IMD. They're coming in from school. So there are going to be more of these. Admissions director Q and a's coming your way on the podcast. We continue to release those little short mini episodes that I recorded out in New Orleans at the GMAC conference. I think we most recently had Eddie Aspy from Cornell, which should be in your feed now. And by the time you listen to this, I think another one will have come out, which is Laurel Grodman over at Yale School of Management. So definitely check those out. There's still more to come. I think there are a handful more that we recorded, so those will just continue to flow out. Other than that, if you want to reach out to Alex or me, you can write to infolereadmit.com dot, use the subject line wiretaps and we will write you back. We continue to get some communication from even veteran listeners. Alex, you probably saw we had a nice email from Cap. I don't know if you remember cap from last year. But, yeah, so we still get emails from folks and it's just love keeping in touch with people as they go through this process.
Alex, anything else? Before we start talking about this week's candidates?
[00:14:52] Speaker B: Let's keep going.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: All right, so you know what? I'm going to need to.
This is like a classic thing, Alex, but I somehow. I'm looking for the wiretaps candidates and I had them on my screen, so we're just going to roll with it.
But this is wiretaps candidate number one.
So our first candidate has just. Just three schools on the target list, and those schools are Harvard, Stanford and Wharton, sometimes referred to as the trilogy.
This candidate is a british doctor, or at least lives in the UK and I think grew up in the UK, so I'm assuming british. They mentioned they were born on an island in Europe and then moved to the UK when they were younger. So this person's a medical doctor, but then left the medical profession to join, I believe it's McKinsey and basically has been working at McKinsey and now wants to go to business school with the idea that they'll get into VC. They're really interested in kind of healthcare related VC. So in terms of the numbers, they have a 326 on the GRE, they have a 4.0 GPA. Alex, I was kind of wondering, I don't know if you had more information on this, but I was sort of wondering is that, you know, I presume they went school in the UK and there is no 40 in the UK. So I'm guessing they maybe have like a first class honors, which would be sort of like a 40, I guess.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I would assume, yeah.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: So anyway, I'll kind of stop there. But what do you make of this candidate? Because it's an interesting profile. I want to hear from you on school selection, on their goals, but also just. Yeah, overall, like, what do you make of this? And it's kind of an unusual profile to be a doctor and then a McKinsey consultant.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's absolutely fantastic. And clearly the highlight of the profile is the fact that they were a medical doctor. They're obviously well qualified, got the first class degree, was a practicing medical doctor, made the transition to McKinsey. That can't be trivial. And I would assume they've been doing some really interesting things at McKinsey, which has sort of inspired them for this MBA to get the sort of the business fundamentals to then switch into sort of healthcare tech vc. Type stuff. Now it might be that they want to look at that goal.
Maybe investment banking is a little bit more realistic in the short run to then transition into vc sort of related stuff to get that sort of finance training and the fundamentals that might make things a little bit more palatable or at least a little bit more realistic in that sense.
So maybe just tweaking that goal a little bit would help.
But other than that, I mean, their extracurriculars look decent.
I would go all in on Harvest, Stamford, Wharton, round one, as they're planning to do with the recognition that if things don't work out well, there are several other top m seven programs that might well work for this candidate. Kellogg, for example, with that sort of strong healthcare focus, with a decent finance program, which sometimes gets overlooked because of their strength in marketing.
But yeah, I think quite honestly, Graham, this is probably a pretty high caliber candidate.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I've kind of like, I have sort of of two points of view. On the one hand I'm like, wow, doctor worked at McKinsey applying from the UK, which is a market that's woefully underrepresented at the top US MBA programs. So there are all these pluses, plus first class honors or a 40 GPA.
But then on the other hand, I'm kind of like, well, that 326 is not going to jump off the page. It's sort of average ish for Wharton and HBS, below average for Stanford.
It's probably fine given that they did so well in school, but again, just not jumping off the page and then the goals, like you were saying, the goals sort of stuck with me because I was like, wow, you don't go from a doctor and a little bit of consulting right into VC. Most often you'd have to pass the investment banking as we always talk about. So I think, yeah, some refining of the goals to develop a more rational kind of short term goal that then ultimately maybe leads them to that VC promised land would be smart. And the last thing I would say is, just like you're saying, think about expanding the scope. I mean, sure, apply to the trilogy in the first round, but then what about round two? And I would argue they mentioned they want to be in London. And so I was thinking, you know, well, lbs should be on this list and potentially, I don't know if they're thinking about healthcare and health tech, MIT or, you know, just, I'm trying to think of schools they could add in a second round that are very top schools that are also very well known both in the US and abroad. So MIT came to mind, and then the others you mentioned, you mentioned Kellogg and stuff, so, yeah, just expanding the scope might be smart. But again, I love this candidate overall. I just want to make sure they address these potential pitfalls.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah, fair points. Absolutely.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: All right. So I want to thank that person for sharing their profile and also they had some dialogue with you, which made this easier for us to kind of understand their goals and stuff. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretap. That's candidate number two.
So our second candidate this week is a really interesting candidate in that she's a kind of humanities background person. She didn't say which, whether it's English lit or a language or what, but humanity.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: Do you ever watch Big Bang theory grow?
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah, a little bit. I've seen some episodes. Yeah.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: Sheldon, the humanities.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. Yeah. So I'm a fan of the humanities. And so this person she went to, she doesn't say where, but she says either Harvard, Yale or Princeton for undergrad, had a three six GPA, then did a master's, also in the humanities at a top school in the field that she was focused on. And she had a three nine in her masters.
She's taken the GMAT and got a 645, which for those of you who are still getting used to the new and old GMAT, that's about a 690 on the old test, so a little bit below average at top schools. Her gre, which she also took just without sort of preparation to sort of see where she would land there, is a 322. She is thinking about Alex maybe taking MBA math as a way to kind of bolster her quantitative side. She also mentions that she'll have like six years of experience when she matriculates and she is a little worried that she'll have too much experience. She mentions that all the deferred enrollment candidates, like from, you know, places like Harvard, where there's this two plus two, she's like, they're all going to be 24 years old or something and she's wondering, is she too old for an MBA? Her work experience state has been in kind of, sort of finance and financial analysis, I think. And then she also, though, prior to working for the finance role she's in now, she did a stint at a startup and also worked as a reporter. So a little bit different. Her short term goal is to go to MBB, and her long term plan is she needs to take over her family's business located in the midwest, where she wants to land. And I believe it's like a family kind of manufacturing business. I don't have the list of schools that she's targeting because I don't have that in front of me. But I believe it was sort of a mix of top 16 schools if memory serves. So Alex, what do you make of this candidate?
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think there's one weakness here that she can absolutely try to overcome and other than that, I think again a really interesting strong profile. So the 645 GMAT, the 322 GRE, that's definitely going to be slightly on the weaker side. I would wonder what that quant score is in both tests.
And I absolutely think first step, do that MBA math. They really want to show AdcoM that they've got the self awareness to recognize that as someone that studied the humanities at the undergrad and master's level, perhaps not so much quantum work in those degrees. So bolster that up and, you know, so absolutely do that. If she can come back and retake the GMAT, just nudge it up a few points, that would make a big impact. Same as if she, she prepped and took the GRE and sort of bolstered. I don't think she needs to be in the first round if that's the question that she's struggling with. You know, I don't have the time because I've got to do a bunch of other stuff to get my applications ready. Then I would pull back on a few of the applications targeting round two, maybe one or two into round one knowing that I can then prep and spend a bit more time just bolstering the test score. Because I think if she does all this stuff, I think she's probably got some pretty interesting experiences when she adds up her reporting experience, her startup experience, her banking experience, etcetera. And as long as she can come up with a cogent narrative in terms of the steps that she's made, the whys in terms of her switches and so on and so forth, her long term goal, family business. So that will sit well with AdcOM. I think she's got somewhere absolutely to go. Hopefully she's passionate about that and so on and so forth. So a lot to like here, Graham, I really hope that she is able to mitigate any concern in terms of her quant profile.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And you had mentioned in the comments that you were thinking she should be looking at a couple of schools in the midwest too. I think that were not on her list.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Kellogg and Ross.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think that does make sense. And Kellogg happens to have a real strength in family business. They have like a little family business center. So does Wharton, actually. Those are the two schools that I think of when I think of family business. But when I see this profile, I know that admissions officers are going to be rooting for her. I. So for a number of reasons, female, qualitative kind of background. But then you get into this issue, and it's great that she's working in banking now and finance and stuff, but I think you're absolutely right. Take MBA, math or business fundamentals like one of these courses, to demonstrate both an awareness of this weakness and a readiness for the core curriculum in business school. And, yeah, to the extent that she could boost one of her test scores, I think it would really help. Otherwise, though, I think everything makes sense. Going to consulting in the short term and then taking over the family business.
Fine. And, yeah, really interesting candidate. I'm rooting for her. I know the admissions readers will be. So she just needs to make sure that she kind of ticks these boxes. That would be potential concerns.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Very good.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: All right. So I want to thank her for sharing her profile and, yeah, let's, let's move on, though, and talk about wire taps. Candidate number three.
So our third candidate this week has an interesting background, too. You picked some, as always, Alex, you picked some great candidates. Candidate is a military candidate who then finished their military service and joined a defense contractor. This person has a 3.2 GPA from undergraduate. They took the GMAT focused edition or the current GMAT, and they scored a 665, which again, if you're curious and are trying to equate that to the old score, that's either a 710, 720, depends on the percentile. They're mostly targeting top 16 schools. I think they have like one m seven, which is Columbia, and then they have a handful of other top 16 programs. They want to do consulting after business school and then maybe get back into something in the defense sector. They have limited extracurriculars. They mentioned, I mean, obviously while they were in the military, that's very understandable. But they do say that they're a marathoner, so they have that going for them. But, Alex, what do you make of this counter? Because it's, you know, one of the things, first of all, is that they're military, but they've already transitioned into the private sector working for a defense contractor. But, yeah. What do you make of them in the numbers and everything? I mean, this is kind of an interesting case.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think you've picked up an interesting point there. The majority of military candidates that we see targeting top business schools are coming straight out of the military to get the NBA to then start their private sector experience. So this candidate has a couple of years in the corporate sector. So I assume that experience has allowed them to recognize, okay, an MBA will be really useful in terms of my career trajectory going forward.
And I think that can add to their overall profile. We don't know a lot about their actual military experience. I think if we got a better sense of that, this candidate could come across as being a super strong candidate in terms of that military and that corporate experience combined.
So let's presume that they do have a strong sort of military profile.
Their numbers aren't jumping off the page, but again, I don't think they're bad at all either. Right. 665 32 gpA.
So their numbers won't guarantee them a spot in the top program, but that sort of in complement of strong military experience. And then hopefully the corporate experience is also similarly strong. They can show impact and growth in that corporate experience and stuff.
That'll be helpful. I'm not sure about this marathon stuff, Graeme. I did it once. I think it shows a little degree of insanity, but it also shows a lot of dedication, a lot of drive, a lot of personal whatever. So there's definitely lots to be squeezed out of being a marathon. Yeah. Having gone through the experience once, I can. I can say that that is not the experience for a typical person. So, yeah, quite frankly, Graham, I do like this profile and, you know, they're looking at top 16 programs, so I think that's very fair.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Yeah, so they have Cornell and Columbia and Tuck, Duke, Mit, Nyu and Darden. Oh, and Yale as well. So those are the schools they have on their target list.
Yeah, I'm a little. I guess I'm a little more cautious here because I'm concerned about the numbers. I think, you know, obviously it's good that they're not only applying to, like, m seven schools, so they are casting a slightly wider net. But I would argue that they might need to even look further afield and make sure they have, you know, it depends on how urgent it is for them to go off to business school, obviously, and they could, you know, we've talked about them applying in the first round of some and then see where the chips fall. But, yeah, I just feel like. I mean, I just don't have enough information either. Right. On that. Like, so maybe that three two is from West Point or something, in which case that looks a little different. So we don't have that information, unfortunately. But I hear you when you're saying there's a lot to like, too. I mean, I think this is obviously, there's a lot of potential. The numbers give me a little bit of pause in terms of how competitive they might be at, say, a Columbia or a talk, but I guess they'll see they can apply, and there's obviously no big rush as a military candidate. It's not like they're over represented. And I think, I know you think running a marathon is insane and stuff, but hopefully that's something that they, if they're a marathoner, as they call referred to it, they're regularly kind of running. Maybe they belong to a running club or they have raised some money for charity. I mean, there are all kinds of things that one could associate to running that would make that a more robust kind of extracurricular, potentially. But, yeah, this will be interesting. I mean, I would love to know answers to the questions about, you know, the quality of the military experience and all these other things we're talking about, but, yeah, we'll see how it goes for them.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But I think one of the key points is they can target the programs that they're targeting in the first round.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: And if they're not successful, they can come in, in round two. They, again, as you said, they're not over represented. So this whole idea, they've got to get all their ducks in a row in round one, like in maybe an Indiana tech person has to do. They don't have to do that. So.
[00:31:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
I want to thank them for sharing their profile and for their service. So, yeah, Alex, great kind of dilemmas this week because each candidate had these kind of, sort of two, sort of like, you know, the first one we dealt with was sort of, you know, the kind of doctor and consultant. Then we had this sort of humanities reporter person who also is a banker. And now we have the kind of military person who's also already in the private sector now. And so a lot of, like, rich kind of career backgrounds to discuss today. So really interesting stuff. Let's do it all again next week if you're willing. And, yeah, we'll see everyone next week.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: Very good. Best of luck, everyone. Stay safe.
You.
