Episode Transcript
[00:00:17] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm your host, Graham Richmond, and this episode is part of our Admissions Director Q and A series.
Today, I'm delighted to welcome Larry Medina, Associate Director of Admissions at insead. I'll let Larry elaborate on his journey to admissions at insead, but I would be remiss if I failed to mention that he's had a wealth of experience at insead, ESSEC Business School and Singapore Management University, much of it in the domain of career services, career development and coaching. So it will be a real treat to connect with someone who really knows the business school landscape. Coach currently works in admissions at a top program and has a firm understanding of the career piece too. Larry holds a BS in Chemical Engineering from the Colorado School of Mines and an MBA from the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth. Welcome to the Clear Admit podcast, Larry.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Thank you, Graham.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: Yeah, so I'm really looking forward to this conversation. We were talking a little bit before we came on air here, and I love the idea that you've had such a rich experience on different areas, careers, admissions, et cetera. So if you would just briefly kind of tell us about your background in this path, path that led you to insead.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Okay, sure thing. So I originally started off as a chemical engineer in oil and gas, working in Alaska for about five years. And then I decided to get my mba. That's when I went back to back to school and, and joined the Tuck Business School. After that I did about 20 years in corporate finance, mostly for technology companies, semiconductors and software.
Eventually moved into a business role within the education space.
And after doing about 20 years of tax, treasury, M and A etc, I decided I want to do a radical career change and I moved into career coaching at the business school at the postgraduate level. First, as you mentioned, Singapore Management University, and then subsequently ESSEC and INSEAD as well.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it's an interesting journey, but I think, you know, schools like INSEAD are really fortunate to get folks onto the team who have that kind of corporate background too. I mean, it's, you know, 20 years of experience out in the workforce. So I think that's just a huge advantage that you bring.
What? I guess more recently, you know, you mentioned you'd kind of shifted into admissions from that kind of career side. What was it that sort of drew you to admissions work?
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I loved career coaching and career services. I was ready for a new challenge. As you can tell, I pivoted a few times in my career, so I was ready to do something new.
But really I felt like with my background in industry and in career services that I could bring value to the process.
I've seen obviously a lot of very standard business backgrounds, but I've seen a lot of very unconventional backgrounds that have come through the education and business school that I've worked at as well too.
And so I thought I could bring a lens to admissions and add some value there as well. But as I said, really I was also looking for a new challenge to learn something new. And it's lived up to that challenge. It's been a great year plus so far in admissions.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny, when I used to read applications, I used to be in admissions at the Wharton School. I do remember feeling like, wow, I don't know enough careers wise. And so they would have kind of people on the team and sometimes people from career services come in to help and give us just get people up to speed on what are all these jobs that people might have coming into an MBA or even the jobs they're talking about wanting after business school, you know, if you haven't worked in all these areas. So I think, yeah, what a great asset you must be on the team. I guess I want to ask you, you've been doing this for a year now on the admission side and I feel like you need only spend a little bit of time on the Internet, looking at forums, et cetera, to see that candidates often have like the wrong idea about how the process works. So I wondered what's one misconception that you think applicants tend to have about admissions officers or the process that you'd love debunk here?
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I think for me, I think one misconception is the evaluation process.
And what I mean about that is I do think that applicants sometimes very much focus on the academic side and also on the professional experience side.
And while those are both very important, I want to point out that especially INSEAD is looking for people that have cultural awareness, international exposure or international curiosity.
And also with obviously the extracurricular activities. I think all schools look holistically, but I do think NCI kind of takes that to an extreme and we layer on top of that the value and the extreme importance around cultural awareness, dealing with diverse backgrounds and those aspects as well. So I think the misconception is focusing maybe on one or two aspects when in reality it's the complete package that's really important.
[00:05:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I recently read a report, I think it was GMAC that put it out about how business schools and I'm Thinking of INSEAD in particular here, bring together people from all over the world. And now we live in a world that's somewhat rugged instead of maybe flat with tariffs and different, different sort of political conflicts, et cetera. And so I think that bringing people together and making sure, as you say, that they have that kind of cultural awareness, or at least that curiosity is really critical.
And I love that it is such a holistic process. It's not just numbers. I do wonder, you've been in and around business schools for many years now, and I wonder how is your thinking about admissions changed over the years, if at all?
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Well, I think. Okay, I mean, obviously I've only been in admissions for about a year, but it's clear that it's a very dynamic space right now.
And I would point to just some of the technological changes that are happening right now with AI.
And I think every school is. Is adjusting to these new technologies that applicants are going to use, students are going to use, and even business schools are going to use as well.
I'm not sure I have a lot of insights into what the changes broadly are happening, but I've been here one year now and I can see that schools are going to need to adjust quickly to some of these changes.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I also was kind of wondering, and feel free to comment on this. I was kind of wondering. It seems like the job market has shifted too, since whenever you first began doing career coaching for MBA students to the present day.
I feel like we see these shifts and obviously there are lots of ups and downs, whether it's technology jobs rising and finance jobs falling and then vice versa, or consulting coming on strong. So do you have any thoughts on that, the way that the job market is being shaped and reshaped?
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think definitely major changes within the job market. I would say some of the skills more around adaptability, you know, being able to.
Quick learning, I guess, is one of the. The other phrases that's out there now too as well.
And I think business schools play a big role in. In that I think having done an mba, you may not remember all of the technical learning that you had throughout the program, but that whole idea of learning something quickly or being very adaptable or flexible, those types of skills are going to become more in demand as the technological speed increases within different functional areas and within different industries as well.
So I encourage both applicants and students to have an idea of what they want to do afterwards from a career perspective, but to remain open and flexible, knowing that that's really what companies are looking for today is that ability to basically pivot very quickly if you need to.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I do feel like business schools historically have been pretty good at adapting to change and you know, like the rate at which business schools have integrated, for example, AI, you know, into their curricula, it's pretty impressive to me. When you think about like how long would it take say law schools to incorporate something new into the curriculum? Like, I just think business schools are typically fast moving, which is terrific. Going back to, you know, thinking about career goals and you know, things that are on applicants mind, I just wondered like, is there something that you think of that applicants tend to worry too much about, you know, when they're applying to business school that maybe they shouldn't be so, so worried about?
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think one big mistake is wanting to provide the perfect response or to provide the response that they think we're looking for.
Right.
And I advise applicants, but even on the career side, you know, to be genuine, to give a genuine answer to unique answer and very specific answers. Right. We're not looking for the perfect business background.
We're looking for somebody that's going to add to the diversity of the school that's going to have a really unique special story that might be different from everybody else.
And so I would really encourage applicants don't always think about what we want.
Tell your story and there's a high chance that that's going to be very memorable and that's going to make you stand out as an applicant versus giving us a generic answer that you think we want.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great advice.
Looking back over the students that you've connected with over the years. So it could be people you've met, you know, in the last year, you know, doing, going through the admissions process or even, you know, in the earlier years when you're working with people on career related stuff, what are some of the qualities you think that tend to distinguish those who make the most of the opportunities during the mba?
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think it kind of ties back to a few of the previous questions as well.
In this, you know, job market becoming changing very rapidly, etc. The two that I would point to would be resilience and curiosity. Right.
So especially for INSEAD because our program is 10 to 12 months, so it's very intense and that resilience like coming in, getting period one very quickly and coming up to speed layer on top of that the job search and starting to interview and look for jobs, I think the people that do the best are the ones that are very resilient. That something may not go right, but they're able to basically pick themselves up and try something new and keep going. I would say resilience, but the other one is curiosity.
I think sometimes students come in and they have a very specific plan of what they want to learn, what they want to do after they graduate, what job they want.
And I would encourage them to be curious.
You may go to a presentation by a company that you don't know, you've never even heard of before and find something totally amazing as far as what they are doing, what type of roles they offer.
And I think that willingness to be curious is really important. And I know sometimes that's really difficult because there's a bit of fomo, you know, that if you're not doing a specific path, then maybe you're not doing the right thing. But I think the people that do the best are the ones that don't worry about the noise and are curious and keep an eye open for opportunities.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Yeah, and I'm smiling because I feel like, you know, when I was in business school, I remember there are a lot of people who ended up doing interviews for some of the big names, consulting or even banking interviews. And it. And it wasn't even their target choice. They just were like, well, I better do this, because that's what everyone else seems to be doing. So I think you're right. Having. Yeah. Being able to stay focused and keeping your mind open and not get kind of rushed off into the, you know, follow the herd into. Into everything is a really good piece of advice.
So one thing I want to ask you, and I'm guessing you must have a fair amount of interaction with alums from the school, both, you know, just over the course of your career. But I wondered, when they come back to campus or you see them on the road, what's something that they often tell you that they maybe didn't fully appreciate while they were students, but with the hindsight, have really grown to appreciate?
[00:13:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I think a couple things. The first one I would say would be relationships.
And the, you know, again, I come back to. It's an intense program and it pushes people together.
But I think that alumni, when they come back, they realize that probably one of the biggest values of the program was the relationships that they built during the program.
And sometimes there's a bit of remorse that they didn't spend more time building more relationships or maybe even building deeper relationships during the program.
Fortunately, there's an Extremely strong alumni community and a lot of alumni events. And so they kind of get a second chance at really investing in the relationship side of INSEAD and such. But I think sometimes they. They wish they would have spent more time with their classmates, with their study mates, and. And really focused on those relationships.
The other piece comes down to the resilience I talked about earlier to some extent, but it's. It's more around enjoying the journey. Right.
And I think sometimes people, you know, they want to get a certain gpa, which is fine. They want a certain job, that's fine as well, but they're very focused on achieving a specific target. And maybe they don't enjoy the entire journey as much as they should when they're actually in the program. Yeah.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: And I think one thing that's fascinating to me about INSEAD is just, as you say, the intensity of the program. It's a shorter format than some other MBA programs out there. And every time I talk to grads, they always mention this because it's intense. The bonds are super strong. You're kind of thrown into the mixer with folks, and you really go through it over the course of, what, 10 to 12 months. Right. So you're. Yeah. So I think people are always commenting about that. I did want to ask you, and this is a little bit, kind of on a little tangent here, but one of the things that's always struck me is that with regards to the admissions process and specifically interviewing, INSEAD does two interviews with candidates, and both, I believe, are conducted by an alum. Right. So you have this large alumni group that's out there conducting these interviews. And I don't know if you could just comment on that. Like, what's, what's the idea behind that? I mean, I think it seems like such a. Maybe some candidates might be nervous about it. Oh, I've got to do two interviews. But for me, it seems like potentially a really nice opportunity to kind of, you know, hear more about what they. What those alums experience and make sure that it's the right place for you. But. Yeah. Would you comment on why that's sort of set up that way?
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I do think it's a special feature of the INSEAD admissions process.
We do have two alum that will do the interview for applicants going through the process.
And it's set up that way, again, more around the cultural aspects that we're looking for.
This international curiosity, the welcoming of diverse backgrounds and the alum. There's nobody better to evaluate whether they think somebody would really fit into the community and do well at INSEAD than alumni.
And I'd have it to say, you know, just working with the, the interview, the alumni interviewers for the past year.
That is absolutely true. We take their feedback very seriously.
They are, you know, they write up notes very focused on whether this person would fit into the overall culture and dynamic at insead.
And again, I really feel like they have probably the best insight into whether somebody would really not only fit in, but also really thrive and enjoy the INSEAD culture as well.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: Yeah, we've been doing some events at Clear Admitted Late and one of the themes from some of your colleagues in admissions and other programs has been this notion of it's not just about proving to the admissions team that you can survive the curriculum, but it's really that you can thrive. And if you're struggling in a subject area, that's going to make it all the harder for you to take part in everything else that's happening. So I have to ask you, and I've been asking this of everyone that's come on the show, but give me one stereotype about INSEAD's MBA program that you would like to debunk.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: Okay. The one I want to debunk is that INSEAD is a consulting school.
Okay. So that's the one that we deal with a lot from an admissions perspective. Yes, INSEAD has always had a strong connection to the consulting industry. Obviously we have people coming in with consulting backgrounds, backgrounds focus on strategy, but, but it's more than that. And we obviously have a lot of people coming in with engineering backgrounds, science backgrounds, arts, journalism, you know, and so it's quite a wide variety of people coming in and when they leave the program, you know, ending up in financial services or ending up in heavy industry, you know, it could be any industry that they end up in.
And also as of late, I think most schools are probably seeing an uptick in entrepreneurship.
I would say that INSEAD definitely is also seeing MBAs graduating that are very focused on starting their own company and becoming an entrepreneur as well.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And I have to say, I mean, I think that AI is kind of making it easier for people to get a business going or to experiment with ideas and write a business plan, sort of map things out. So I think that makes a lot of sense that we're seeing that last serious question I have for you. And then we have some fun lightning round questions. So the last serious question I have for you. And I want this to kind of be a two parter, if possible. So the first is I'D love to just know what role does INSEAD's location and the broader community kind of play in the student experience? And the reason I think this one has to be a two parter is because in the case of insead, you have multiple campuses. So I mean, if you would comment about, I'd love for us to just better understand the mechanics of how someone maybe gets to experience more than one campus during their time. But also like, what does it mean? What do you have access to when you're in Fontainebleau, France versus Singapore?
How do those two different communities interact with the institution?
[00:19:49] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I do think again, it's a wonderful opportunity for the students at insead.
Actually we have three campus, so we have the Fontainebleau campus in France, which was the original campus. We have Singapore campus, which 2001 I believe was the start of the Singapore campus.
But we also have the Abu Dhabi campus in the Middle east as well.
And the mechanics of that is MBAs can start in either Fontainebleau or Singapore and they do the first two periods there and then there's a opportunity for them to bid and to move campuses.
They can stay the entire time in one campus or they can do two periods and then move for a period and then move back.
We also have the opportunity to do one period in Abu Dhabi as well. Obviously geopolitically there's some complexity right now, but that is still an wonderful opportunity for people that are interested in the Middle east as well.
Okay, so to maybe build that out a little bit. Yeah, I think Fontainebleau is wonderful in that it's an hour outside of Paris.
So the forest, it's in the forest. You know, it's, it's a very rural setting.
And I do think it also adds to one of your comments earlier about the, the, the intensity brings people together, but I also kind of think being in a little bit more remote location and Fontainebleau also brings together, brings people very, very much together as well. And building bonds as they're doing this very intense program in the forest outside of Paris. Yeah, Singapore is more of a city campus and so it has its own vibe. It's very close to the business center of Singapore.
10, 15 minutes away from the central business district in Singapore. Right across the street is a big hub for entrepreneurship.
Launchpad is the name of it. That's very close to the campus as well too.
So it has a completely different feel to it. Different opportunities.
I think for both campus too. I should mention that obviously the chance to travel and see the region is Also very important. So having non European students that go to France, obviously they want to see a bit of Europe.
The students that come to Singapore obviously want to see potentially Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam. Vietnam as well. So there's those types of opportunities.
And then finally Abu Dhabi, it's more of a city campus.
It's in the city.
I think the wonderful thing about that is learning just more about the economies and the companies and just the cultural differences in the Middle east as well too. So that's only available for one of our terms, but it's really a great way to learn a lot about the Middle east in a short period of time.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: Yeah, and I was just thinking about what you're saying about, you know, the campus in Fontainebleau and France. I mean, it's interesting how it's not far at all from Paris in the sense that, you know, there's a direct train into Paris. I think it's like 40 minutes or so. And you know, like you said, by the time you walk on either end, maybe it's an hour door to door. Right. So it's close enough to give people that access to a major European center. But as you point out, I mean, it is a beautiful forest with, you know, people go kind of mountain bouldering there and do all kinds of great stuff. And so. Yeah, so there's, you know, I think it's also a really interesting point you're making about when you drop people into a place that they're none of them are from in most cases. Right. It sort of creates a bond because they're, you know, it's not, it's not as though they can be distracted by the city or, you know, so it seems like a nice opportunity. Do you know, off the top of your head at all, like, does the average student get to sort of two of the three campuses during the course of their mba, or is it a little less than that? Or how does it typically work? Are a lot of people just staying put the whole time or do a lot of people take advantage of this two campus option or three campuses, as you say?
[00:23:58] Speaker B: No.
Yeah, the majority will take advantage of the mobility and move between campuses.
[00:24:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, terrific. All right, so those were the kind of serious questions I had about INSEAD and admissions, but I wondered if you'd stick around. I love. Since our candidates are, you know, those who tune in or, you know, they're often out on the road, they go to, you know, NBA fairs, etc. We like to try to humanize the people they might encounter when, you know, they go to a fair or they meet with an admissions officer. So I've got some questions for you that are a little more personal in nature, but should be some fun. And hopefully we'll send the message to our listeners that you're a regular guy and not sort of a mythical gatekeeper or something. So the first question is coffee or tea?
[00:24:42] Speaker B: Oh, definitely coffee.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: I'm absolutely a coffee person.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: All right. What about beach or mountains?
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Okay, this one's tricky. I grew up in Colorado, so I grew up in mountains.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:24:52] Speaker B: But I actually prefer the beach.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Okay. All right, excellent. Well, you're in a good. Since you're based out of Singapore, I guess you have some pretty good access to beaches in that general area, at least better than in Colorado, let's say.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: Are you a morning person or a night owl?
[00:25:07] Speaker B: I am a morning person. Okay. And I go running early in the morning before it gets hot in Singapore. I love sunrise and early morning.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: Okay, got it. Appreciate you. I know we're doing this a little bit later in the day, so appreciate you doing that to make time. What about a pet peeve that you have?
[00:25:24] Speaker B: Okay, I'm going to sound old fashioned, but tardiness being late is definitely my pet peeve.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: Okay, understandable. What about a comfort food?
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Okay. Comfort food is tacos. And I would say nowadays you can find good tacos in Singapore as well.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: Oh, that's good news. Yeah, because I was going to say that was going to be my next question.
All right. What about a guilty pleasure?
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Okay. My guilty pleasure is heavy metal music.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Awesome. All right, we'll have to talk about that.
What about the best advice that you've ever received?
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's probably obvious because I've talked about my career that I'm getting up there in years, but I think the best advice I've ever had was take care of your body as much as you possibly can at all ages, but especially as you get older.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, great advice.
What is one thing that you think
[00:26:15] Speaker B: applicants should stop doing immediately over relying on artificial intelligence?
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, one thing that's fascinating to me is we talk about this a lot on the show. Candidates are using AI, sometimes just to do research about business schools. Right. And the AI goes to like Reddit or kind of Wikipedia or something, and then it comes back with an answer and you're like, why didn't they just go to the INSEAD website to get
[00:26:39] Speaker B: an answer to this question?
[00:26:40] Speaker A: So in any event. Yeah, so that's good advice. And then the last question I have for you is the best thing that you've read, watched or listened to recently.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: Okay, so I love the sports documentaries on Netflix, and the one that I've seen recently that I highly recommend is Jamie Vardy.
Let me quickly explain. I think international folks will know who he is. He's a soccer player in England.
And not spoiler alert, I guess a bit. But he was a massive outsider and a huge underdog to be successful in English soccer. And it's a wonderful, wonderful story.
Again, a bit about kind of resilience and persistence. But he's also very funny as well, too, so I highly recommend it.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Okay, good to know. I'm really enjoying these interviews because I keep noting these down as I talk to admissions directors and get all these bits of advice.
Larry, thank you so much for joining us. This has been incredibly helpful. Appreciate you making time. I know we're in the middle of the admissions cycle, so. Yeah, really appreciate you making time and staying up a little late in Singapore, too.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: Absolutely. I've enjoyed it. Thank you.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: So that's going to do it for this episode of the show. Thanks for tuning in to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions podcast. And please remember to subscribe, rate and review the show wherever you listen. It.
