Episode Transcript
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm your host Graham Richmond and this special episode is part of our Admissions Director Q and A series. Today I am thrilled to welcome Lindsay Lloyd from New York University, Stern School of Business and Lindsey's title is Executive Director and she leads the recruiting and admissions efforts for Stern's full time MBA programs, including the two year full time MBA and focused one year MBAs. She joined NYU Stern in 2023 after a 20 year career in financial services, serving in roles of progressive responsibility in analytics, marketing and Strategy at Capital One and American Express.
She holds a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Washington State University and an MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business.
I would also be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that Lindsay is a regular Clear Admit podcast listener and has told Alex, my co host and me that she listens on her Monday commute to the office. So without further ado, let's bring Lindsay onto the show here. Welcome, Lindsay.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Hi Graham. Good to be here. Longtime listener, first time caller and I did. It is a Monday and I did in fact listen, listen to Claire Admit on my way into work this morning.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, I was wondering as I said that like, are you still listening? Because I know that you had mentioned to me a while ago. But that's great that you listen, we appreciate it and I know sometimes you keep us in check too, which is great. So I know I gave an intro on your background, but I always love to hear, you know, someone tell their own story. So could you just briefly tell me a little bit about your background and the path that led you to this role at Stern?
[00:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So as you mentioned in your, your intro of me, I have about two decades of experience in financial services with a brief hiatus to get my MBA from the University of Chicago. It wasn't called Booth at the time, so I still trip over that name when I say it. It's always Chicago to me.
And you know, I made a, a mini pivot, a pivot of functional area, but not industry when I did my mba. And like many folks upon the pandemic, I was ready to make another pivot. So made a mid career pivot and took a year off from corporate life and went back to that toolkit that I learned in my MBA program of figuring out what transferable skills I had, where I might want to apply them. I prototyped some things, did some volunteer work, did some contract reading for another MBA program and ultimately arrived it was with a mid career Pivot into admissions.
Got a great opportunity here at NYU Stern. I still get to lead a team. I still get to do marketing, and I get to talk to people about what their, their aspirations are and help them along their way to their own career pivots and the next phase of their career trajectory.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: So it's so interesting that, you know, I had forgotten that you had this long career in finance, because whenever I think of you and hear you speaking about Stern, it just seems like you're kind of made for this role. So I totally forgotten that, this other life working in finance. But let's talk a little bit more though, about, like, what drew you to admissions? I mean, you talked just a second ago about helping people kind of realize their aspirations and think through that stuff. But what, you know, what drew you in really, and what keeps you excited about it today?
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah, well, back in the day when I was at Chicago, I was part of the Dean Student admissions committee. So I did help out as a student volunteer and what we would at Stern call a graduate ambassador. Right. Student employees that help the admissions team. And during my time at American Express, I was certainly involved in recruiting and bringing MBA candidates into work at American Express.
And what I like about it is getting to know people. And that was one of the things that I really loved about my work at American Express was talking to junior colleagues. It's a big company. There are many career pathways.
And careers at Amex are rarely linear.
They involve lateral movements as well as upward movements and jumping from one business unit to another. And so I really enjoyed helping junior colleagues navigate that. And a lot of that is very analogous to admissions work, to helping people think through or even just learn about and help them understand, like, what is possible for them. Where is the, where's the connective tissue between what they've been doing, what they can get out of the MBA program, and where they ultimately want to go and could possibly go long term. So I love seeing those journeys. I'm, you know, I'm selling a product that I, that I bought once upon a time that I firmly believe in. I feel it's a very, you know, it's a large investment of both time and money, but one that has lifetime payoff, not just in the short term, but over the course of, of, you know, a 40 plus year career.
[00:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And like you, I really love that moment when, I mean, the MBA is so versatile. Right. There's so many things you can do with it. And I feel like when people first discover it and realize, wow, I could, you know, I could go into any number of fields, and it's really about leadership and teamwork and management.
It just seems like an easy product to get behind.
You know, it just. Yeah, so that's gotta be rewarding to help people discover that.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: And it creates optionality for you, right? It created optionality for me when I was at a midlife point of like, okay, that's what the first 20 years of my working life looked like. And I want the next 20 years to look different. It allowed me to explore that, tap into my network experiment and find what's next, so. And especially someone who graduated circa 2007. Many of my classmates were impacted by the great financial crisis of 2008, my husband included. And so seeing people, you know, there will always be those storms, economic storms, the macro storms that come along, and. And the MBA is kind of that, you know, superhero utility belt.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: That helps you figure out, okay, where's the next opportunity? How do I ready myself for that? How do I tell my story to make that transition?
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's so accurate. One thing I wanted to ask you now is I want to kind of shift to talk a little bit about admissions. And, you know, I feel like applicants have some misconceptions about admissions officers and even the admissions process. So what's one misconception that you kind of think people have?
[00:06:47] Speaker B: It's hard to narrow down. I think everybody assumes there's some magic formula and that there's an algorithm that if you hit all the right beats, like Bada Bing, you get into the program that you want, and the reality is there's no magic formula. And what will really help the most is to tell your story. Not someone else's story, not what you think we want to hear, but telling your story well, to really differentiate yourself. I think that's probably the most. The biggest misconception and the one that I'd like to kind of shut down the most.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's accurate, people. I mean, we hear we've been doing all these kind of events with clear admit, with admissions directors from all different schools. And. Yeah, that's a kind of radio recurring theme, this idea that, you know, you don't need to sort of be this one kind of magical, you know, candidate to get in, you know, just be yourself. And that's what they're trying to do is piece together a really diverse class.
You've been in this role for a few years now, and I just wonder has. And even thinking back to your time when you were, you know, as an Admissions ambassador or whatever it was called back when you were an MBA candidate. Like, how has your thinking about admissions changed over the years, if at all?
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that, that's a hard question to answer because I feel like I'm amongst peers that have like decades of experience in the space and I feel like a wee babe, relatively speaking, with only three and a half years under my belt.
And I don't know that my student admissions experience perspective was fully informed. So I hate to draw from that. But maybe this will help illuminate some of what we were just saying about, like telling your own story and that kind of thing. Right. Like my background, 20 years in the corporate world as a hiring leader, I was often looking for, you know, the one right person for the job that I was hiring for.
And that's a much different selection process than seating a class of, you know, 320 to 360 people. Like, it's a totally different exercise than a hiring leader. And so I think applicants sometimes come in with that, that sort of hiring leader mindset, like, I got to be the one perfect person to fit. Whereas from an admissions officer's perspective, we're sort of hiring for the bigger picture, if you will, right, where we're selecting a big group. And the reality is like, we don't, we don't yield everybody. So we are often, you know, welcoming in more than we expect to ultimately land. So while the class profiles tell the story of who came, it doesn't tell the story of everyone that we talked to along the way, everyone that we admitted, that kind of thing.
Similarly, when people think about like, scholarships and that kind of thing, I know there's a lot of schools that offer scholarship reconsideration and we've taken a point of view that we don't, we just don't do that.
We are evaluating everybody who we admit for merit scholarships and we are awarding those scholarships. Scholarships, broadly, we're transparent about, about a quarter of the class gets a scholarship of some kind, a one year or two year award from 10k up to full tuition, and everybody who's admitted is considered for those. And while we don't do scholarship reconsideration, everybody's considered. And keeping that yield in mind, we're often awarding more than we know will ultimately yield.
So it's a different, it's a different mindset. Again, like, if you're thinking about it strictly in terms of like a hiring leader, filling for one role, like seating a class of, you know, 330 plus is a, is a much different objective
[00:10:34] Speaker A: yeah, and that sounds like something, I mean, clearly over these three and three plus years that you've kind of, you know, really understood. And I think it's interesting we can have a whole podcast about negotiations, because I feel like so many schools do negotiating and some don't. And there are a few like Stern that have kind of, you know, kind of stood their ground, which, you know, it's just such a fascinating subject. But we got to move on. I got to ask you a question about what is something that you think applicants to Stern worry about far more than they should?
[00:11:03] Speaker B: I think it's that one low element relative to the class profile, one below average element will. Will sink the whole ship. And that's. It's simply not true. Right. We are evaluating the candidate across multiple dimensions. And if you do have, say, a lower quantitative subscription score, we're not making decision solely on that one data point. We're going to look at what does your work experience look like? What do your transcripts look like? What classes did you take? We're kind of triangulating the bigger picture. It's never just one data point that makes or breaks an application.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, that's important, I guess. If someone does have a weakness, I also feel like in some instances there are ways to address it without necessarily retaking a test. Like if, you know, for example, if you did see someone with a lower quantitative score, you just mentioned you might look at their transcript. Presumably you'd be looking for kind of evidence of, you know, maybe they took some quant classes and did well or.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Did you take math, stats, economics, business classes? Right. Like what, what, what are some sort of countervailing data points that might, might bolster that. Similarly, if it was a verbal test score that was low, I'd look at. If you're an international student, you're not a native English speaker, I'd be looking at your language test score. I'd be reading your essays, I'd be reviewing the interview report really carefully, that kind of thing, to make sure that we felt good about your language skills. Ultimately, we want to admit people. We want to set people up for success.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: Right. Okay. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. This is kind of an interesting question that I want you to think about the students that you've admitted in the three plus years that you've been with Stern. And I wonder what qualities tend to distinguish those who make the most of their time at Stern. So not what qualities distinguish those who get in, but, you know, the ones who really thrive and make the most of the MBA experience.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm going to steal a short version from my vice dean here, Nate Pettit, but it really comes down to are you a consumer or are you a collaborator?
And someone who's a consumer comes in, this is transactional. I want my credential, I want my job on the other side, you know, and sees it very black and white and transactional. Someone who's a collaborator is going to come in and make the most of it and knows kind of inherently has that mindset like that you're going to get out of something what you put into it.
So you're going to lean into the challenges, you're going to lean into the classes that are more difficult for you. You are going to volunteer for those student club activities. You're going to know that, that collaborating is going to make the most of this two year experience and the longer term payoff of the mba.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. And it is true. There's so much. It's funny, I feel like candidates have this clear understanding of, oh, I need to have my grades and my test score and I have to have worked and show growth at work. And then there's always that other piece of the candidacy, which is what have they done besides all that stuff? And sometimes I feel like those are the areas where you can kind of see, oh, this person's a photographer or this person is really into to, I don't know, cooking or whatever it might be. And you can kind of visualize them on the campus and what like clubs they would be involved in or how they might be active. And I think that's. It sounds like you're talking a little bit about how will someone, I mean, I guess they can do it in class too. Right. In terms of the anecdotes they might be able to share. But yeah, this idea of just what are you bringing into the community too, as a collaborator. Right.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: I think it's also a mindset that allows you to be resilient and roll with the punches. And if something doesn't go the way that you had planned, you're going to be open to other possibilities and open to receiving feedback and figuring out, okay, what's my next best move and how can I improve, how can I change the outcome next time?
[00:15:03] Speaker A: Okay, perfect. I wanted to ask when alumni come back to campus, which I presume they do, and you must also interact with them when you're out on the road, et cetera. Right. But what is something that they tell you that they didn't fully appreciate while they were Students at Stern, it's a
[00:15:20] Speaker B: rare moment where you step out of the workforce and really focus on investing in yourself in this way.
And so like people appreciate, they miss that moment to have space to explore, to not just focus on the things that they should do. And of course, being that adult and there's a laundry, always a laundry list of the things that you, you need to do or that you should do, but having space to take a class just because it's interesting, right? Because it sparks that kind of intellectual curiosity.
See people pursuing a lot of different things, right. Like not having kind of the tunnel vision that can, can happen in the day to day. So I hope people who start MBAs recognize, go in understanding what a special moment it is. I think you won't fully understand it until you're on that alumni side of the house. But it is a pretty special moment and a rare opportunity to explore and try new things and have the headspace to really take on new challenges.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: And I feel like that fits perfectly what you were saying before, this idea that if you go into an MBA program in a sort of transactional mode of like, well, I'm here to get this job at the end, then you're going to miss out on everything else that goes into it and everything else that it sounds like alums are thinking about when they come back, which is this freedom to explore and collaborate and just be part of this amazing community.
So speaking of all that, I wanted you to give me one stereotype about NYU Stern that you want to debunk.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: A lot of people come in worried about like, can I actually build a community at Stern or is it just a commuter school?
And I think, yes, it's in a big city. And so there's always going to be an element for any program that resides in a big city of people who are already living there and have existing relationships. But there's something about the sort of intense experience of the 2 year MBA program or 1 year MBA programs too, with a relatively smaller cohort. Right.
When you're talking 300 people or 25 or 50 people is the case with the one year programs, you pretty much are going to know everybody in your class. And so there is something special about this sort of smaller village within the village here in New York that we have the home base. We're in a single building here in Stern.
People absolutely build great community. And it is, yes, you may live in a neighborhood or have friends from before the mba, but you're going through this MBA experience with this cohort of people. And frankly, that was my experience too. When I went to Chicago, I didn't live on campus. I lived with friends from undergrad. I still had a really strong bond with my classmates. So is it different than going away to a more rural campus? Absolutely. But New York or nowhere. Right. Like, it is, it's a special type of place and you're, you're going to be selected into a group who, who wants to be here too?
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I will say I was on campus. I don't, I mean, must have been a couple of years ago at this point. But I did note as I was walking through the building, I mean, it's really buzzing with activity and I just, the number of people kind of hanging out, getting lunch together and all those sort of study spaces and lounge spaces.
It really struck me as a close knit community. Almost like, you know, it's in a big city, but it's this sort of haven, you know, where everyone comes together. But anyway, you know better than I do. And I did want to ask you about, like, what is the role that New York City plays in the student experience at Stern? Because as you say, you know, you're in the Greenwich Village, you're in, you know, arguably one of the nicest parts of Manhattan. Right. So, and not far from most corporate headquarters, et cetera. But what, so what is the role that the city plays within, you know, the Stern experience?
[00:19:25] Speaker B: I feel like if you want to be in New York long term, you should do your MBA in New York, like is a, a homing beacon. Right. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. We have so many alums that stay here, so many companies that are hiring. So it's, the network is super strong. Everybody, if they don't live here, they want to come here. So when it comes to professors who want to have guest speakers, the careers team, who wants to bring people in, alumni in, it's easy because they're already here or if they're not here, they're, you know, they're always keen to make a trip to New York. Right. To have an excuse to come back.
So it is, it's really easy because New York is. Everything's right at our front door. I love the energy after working in the financial district, which is kind of sleepy for so long. Like, I love the energy of the Village. I, I love, you know, when I'm walking to my subway, I'm going by the West 4th basketball courts. You've got like street ball energy. We were passing comedy clubs and jazz clubs along the way.
The, the vibes Were so high in June with the Knicks and the World Cup. I wish I could bottle it and be like, this was like New York at, like, peak New York.
So much fun to be in the city. And I think that infects everything we do.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I feel like you're making a really great point about and something that we. We talk a fair amount about on the podcast. But this idea that geography matters, like, where you go to school really matters. You could literally draw a circle around any top business school, and you would find an incredibly dense collection of alums, you know, a stone's throw from the school itself. So, yeah, even though schools like Stern have this global reputation, the local reputation is incredibly important, too, and strong. So I wanted, if you don't mind staying on for a couple more minutes, we have these kind of lightning round questions that I wanted to ask you, which are just so that our listeners get to know you a little bit, because sometimes I feel like, you know, candidates worry about admissions directors as being kind of gatekeepers or, you know, these mysterious figures behind a curtain. So the goal is to pull back the curtain a little bit here. So we'll just run through them. The first one is coffee or tea?
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Coffee all the time and of the ice variety during the warmer months.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Yes. Okay.
Beach or mountains?
[00:21:41] Speaker B: I'm a Pacific Northwest girl, so mountains all day.
[00:21:44] Speaker A: All right. You know, so many people say beach. It's kind of refreshing to hear mountains.
I'm a mountain person, too, so morning person or night owl?
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Morning. Definitely morning.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Okay, what is a pet peeve that you have?
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Oh, this is where I've lived in New York a long time now. People who stand on the left side of an escalator.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Oh, yes. Okay. Living in Paris. I get that, too. Yes. How about a comfort food?
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Popcorn made the way that my dad taught me. So heavy. Bottom pot cooked in oil, butter, and salt, preferably consumed while doing a jigsaw puzzle, watching a movie, or reading a good book.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: All right, excellent.
How about a guilty pleasure that you have?
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Oh, reading fluffy romcom beach read type novels. It's like the perfect opposite of application reading.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense. What about the best advice that you've ever received? And by the way, everyone's been saying this is a really hard question, but hopefully you can come up with something.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: I will. I have to share an antidote, so this is not going to be a quick one, but that's fine. My first trip back to the Pacific Northwest after I finished business school and started my job at American Express. So close family Friend, a guy my dad went to high school with, went on to become an executive at Boeing. So I'm at a Christmas party, and Randy is asking me about how my job is going at amex.
And I said, it's going really well, but, you know, I have to admit, I'm sorry. Somewhat terrified that they're going to discover I'm not as smart as they think I am.
And he threw his head back and laughed, and he said, lindsay, I felt that way every day up until the day I retired.
And it was like. So it wasn't advice, per se, but it was like this aha. Moment of like, oh, everybody has imposter syndrome.
Like, this is. This is just being human.
So I guess the advice would be like, we all just gotta kind of get over ourselves and just do the darn thing and not worry about, like, are we actually qualified or not? Like, everybody's gonna feel a little bit of insecurity about am I qualified?
[00:24:03] Speaker A: And as you were describing that story, I was thinking, if you don't feel that insecurity, then maybe you're not, you know, like, maybe you're not driven enough. Right. So I think maybe it goes hand in hand with. You're just trying to be the best
[00:24:13] Speaker B: or not taking enough risks. Right. Like, take a. Take a challenge.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, that's really. I really appreciate you sharing that. What is one thing that applicants should stop doing immediately?
[00:24:25] Speaker B: Trying to tell us what they think we want to hear?
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Okay. We've had a lot of people talk about AI. I don't know if you want to, like, weigh in on AI Stuff, because a lot of people for this question have been saying, like, oh, stop using AI to write your essays. You know?
[00:24:39] Speaker B: No, I mean, I think AI is a great. I use AI as a thought partner. Like, I. You know, it's a tool we should all be learning and experimenting with. I think you just need to, like, tread carefully and make sure that you don't lose what's uniquely your story.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: I think, you know, our Pick six is a great opportunity to share your personality. But if you want to use AI to, like, make sure that the grammar and the cohesiveness of your goals essay makes sense, then that seems like a smart move to me.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so I know I didn't ask you if we could talk about this, but since you mentioned it, I think the Pick six question that you all have as part of your application is really interesting. Do you want to just say, like, a couple words about it? I don't know that all our Listeners even know what it is.
But I think it's such a great exercise.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: So it's a visual essay and we asked you to share six images along with captions just as a way to tell us a little bit more about yourself. And I'll ask people to kind of visualize what the reader's perspective is. So if you're, you're reading in the Slate screen and you see, you know, the application data form and the resume and the transcript and it's all very like black and white and text based and it kind of flattens the applicant, the person into the application. And the last screens we come to are the pick six.
And so it's such a nice moment because it's suddenly, you know, like expands the application back to the applicant, back to this full fledged human being with, you know, interests and passions and hobbies that go so far beyond a resume, a transcript, a test score. And it's a nice reminder for us on the admission side that, you know, here's the human being on the other side of this application. I love it for many, I love it it because people have fun with it, we enjoy reading it and it's just a very human component of an otherwise very text heavy experience. It's a nice moment for us. So, yeah, pick images. Don't overthink it. It can be simple snapshots. A lot of people love it because it gives them an excuse to go through their phone history and a trip down memory lane. But we've had people be very creative, do hand drawn pictures, do infographics. People are using AI prompts, maybe they have like a memoji that they want to put in different scenarios and that kind of thing. I think that's fine as long as you're telling us like what's why this particular image is important and sheds light on a piece of you that maybe wasn't otherwise obvious in the application.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: Okay, yeah. Every time I hear about it, I'm like, wow, I would love to, to, to do that exercise. Like, unlike most essays that you see, you know, I, I don't, I'm not usually reading a school's essay prompt saying wow, I really love to write that, you know, but this, I'm always like, wow, it'd be really fun to kind of pick, you know, just as a way to sort of distill who you are a little bit and some of the things that you enjoy doing or whatever into kind of a set of exactly. It seems like, and it's got to be fun, as you say, so quick
[00:27:47] Speaker B: Funny story, my first day on the job, I had a meeting with a team and one of the, one of my direct reports said, oh, you know, maybe pull a slide together and tell us, you know, be prepared to introduce yourself.
I don't even think he said slide. I think he just said, you know, share a bit about, but I come from corporate world slide. So I threw, you know, my undergraduate logo, my graduate logo, a couple of pictures on a slide and that kind of thing. And so I presented my slide like this is me. And the whole team cracked up. They're like, oh my God, you just did a pick six. I'm like, what's a pick six?
I didn't even know what it was and I did a pick six.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah, because that's the other thing that you're now reminding me is that that question has been in place for, I want to at least a decade, if not almost two.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: So.
[00:28:34] Speaker A: All right, so last question for you. Going, going back to the more kind of fun, light hearted stuff. What is the best thing that you've read, watched or listened to recently?
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Oh, I love so much of the content that Apple TV produces and have been watching For All Mankind back a few seasons. The, the, the more recent seasons are a little more hit and miss, but if you're not familiar, it's an alt history like sci fi show that is based on the premise like what if the Soviets beat the Americans to the moon? Oh, wow. And it tells that story from the American's perspective. And really interesting. They just released kind of a companion series, the first season of it called Star City and it's from the Soviet perspective. And so I've like, I've kind of fallen in love with the series all over again. But I wouldn't recommend watching Star City unless you've watched at least the first couple seasons of For All Mankind.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: Okay. All right. Wow. I had not heard of that, so I'm going to add it to my list. Appreciate it. Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us. This has been incredibly helpful both to just learning all things Stern and your own journey and a little bit more about you too. So thanks again for making time.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: Of course, it was my pleasure.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: All right, that's going to do it for this episode of the show. Thanks for tuning in to the Clear Admit MBA admissions podcast and please remember to subscribe, rate and review the show wherever you listen. We'll be back with more of these admissions Q and A's all summer long, as well as our regular weekly episodes airing on Mondays.
Sam.
