Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm your host, Graham Richmond, and this special episode is part of our Admissions Director Q and A series.
Today I'm excited to welcome Ann Kilby, associate dean for MBA admissions at Georgetown University's McDonough School of Business.
Anne brings more than 18 years of experience in higher education, including stints at NYU's Stern School of Business and UNC School of Government before coming to Georgetown in 2017.
In her current role in MBA admissions, she has a front row seat to how candidates are navigating today's rapidly changing global landscape and how Georgetown McDonough is evolving its MBA to meet that moment. So welcome. Welcome to the show. Ann. I'm so thrilled. I was so happy when I saw that you were on the calendar here to chat, and it's just great to connect with you.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: Thanks, Graham. I'm so happy to be here, and it's great to connect with you too.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: So I want to dive right in. The first question I have for you is I. I gave a little bit of a bio that, you know, I kind of just worked up on my own, but I would love for you to just tell us a little bit about your background and maybe just what led you to Georgetown, McDonough, and your current role.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So. So in order to get to why I chose Georgetown, I have to do a little bit of a backstory, which thankfully, you shared as well. But as you shared, I started my career at NYU Stern fresh out of undergrad, was there for seven or eight years. While I was there, I achieved my master's in Public Administration at NYU doing it part time. And once I finished that degree, I wanted to apply that degree. And so then I moved to unc. I'm originally from North Carolina, and. And I got to be the Director of MPA Admissions at the School of Government at unc.
I was there for a couple of years, and I really just missed being in a city. Like, I missed some of what. What benefits you get in being in a city. So I didn't want to return to the extent of New York, but I'd still have people in New York, had people in North Carolina, D.C. geographically made sense as a midpoint. So started looking at positions there. And then I believe everything happens for a reason.
There was a Director of Admissions position open at Georgetown, McDonough. I pursued that position mainly for Georgetown's reputation and ranking and offerings. And then why I fortunately accepted that position, and I'm so proud to be associated, is the people and the culture
[00:02:43] Speaker B: that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Everyone I talk to at McDonough always talks about the culture, and we'll probably get into some of that as we talk today.
First thing I want to know, talking about your job is what do you enjoy most about leading admissions at McDonough today?
[00:02:59] Speaker A: So it truly is a privilege to be part of someone's journey to pursue higher education.
We have the fortune in admissions to try to identify the people we believe will thrive not only in an MBA program, but in the Georgetown ethos in our community, and getting to see that from beginning to end. So. So getting to see them on paper, getting to know them through the process, and then seeing them evolve and transform and develop as a student, and then getting to continue engaging with them as alumni and getting to see how they've applied those skills and how their career has really taken off. And it is just extremely rewarding to acknowledge that we could play even a small part in that journey.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Now, when I think back to my own days in admissions. Yeah. I just remember, you know, sometimes you put down a file and you're just like, wow, like these. I'm not worthy. Like, these people are doing incredible things, and they're. And they're so much younger than us, you know, and it's sort of like, wow, how have they done all that already? And. And what a privilege to, like, read their story and eventually bring them into your program.
So I think it'd be the understatement of the year to say that we're living through a pretty dynamic moment globally. You know, economic shifts, geopolitical tensions, technological disruption. Right. With AI. So how are you thinking about the value of an MBA today in that context?
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Sure.
So now more than ever, we have to be adaptable. We have to be able to embrace change. We have to think about problems comprehensively in a multifaceted way.
We have to consider global factors. We have to think about how to strategically and ethically use technology.
An MBA degree is a very unique degree that covers such breadth, you know, so many different topics within general management.
So it's multidisciplinary. So I think it is the degree to best position a person to be ready for this time. And this time we find ourselves in.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I could not agree more. I mean, something that I'm probably a broken record, but we talk a lot on this show about is the fact that, you know, if you go to sort of law school or medical school, you kind of know what you're going to be. Right. You're going to be most Likely a lawyer or a doctor.
Business school, you could be working in technology, you could be working in banking, you could start your own business. I mean, there's just so many different contexts and industries that this degree allows you to touch that. I just think it's such a powerful degree and a flexible one. And especially in these kind of times, makes a lot of sense.
But even so, we do hear about people being a little bit on the fence when it comes to, should I go off to business school? I've got a great job, I'm making some money.
And so I wondered if you'd be willing to kind of help frame, how would you frame the return investment of an MBA in 20, 26 and beyond for someone who's kind of, you know, thinking about this?
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Absolutely. And it's totally understandable, reasonable for a candidate to think about that investment, what it means for them personally, they need to do their due diligence and what they're hoping to see on the return side. And thankfully, the data speaks for itself. You know, you see the Financial Times rankings, for example, which takes into account salary, change, position movement.
We have of course, Georgetown specific data around alumni success stories, our employment reports, where you can see it in aggregate, but also broken down by different segmentations.
Average salary, average bonus. The data is there.
So, you know, I believe your decision should be driven by data, especially in thinking about your career and the career that you hope to achieve. And the data should support that. In terms of what companies are recruiting, there are alumni being placed there, did this, does the school have their relationships, et cetera. But beyond this kind of focus that I've been sharing, you have to think long term.
So the MBA credential, the Georgetown association, you know, that reputational association, that brand name, it's part of your identity for life.
And these are resources, these are people that you will access forever. I know. I proudly hang up my diploma in my office and I look at it and remind myself how challenging but stimulating of a time that was what I learned, how I'm applying those skills. And again, I've been out of school now for many, many years, but it still is fresh on my mind. So I think students have to think about short term return. Absolutely. But then they also have to think long term to be strategic.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I was reading recently someone saying that it's not always just about the first job. Sometimes the MBA network can lead to what ends up being your fifth, you know, so it's like it really does matter. And great points about the Financial Times ranking and all these Places where you can kind of see the data supporting, you know, these decisions. And yeah, such a great opportunity, I think, especially in times of uncertainty. So let's talk specifically about Georgetown and What makes the McDonough MBA particularly well suited to this moment that we're in.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Yes. So we talked earlier in this session about we are in a world of change and there is no time like what we're seeing now in terms of societal, political, economic dynamics. And I am so grateful that Georgetown has chosen this moment to unveil our new curriculum for the students starting in fall 2026. Now, obviously we had some foresight because we've been planning towards this moment for now almost two years. But what this curriculum will prepare our students is exactly, I feel like what is needed in this time, you know, we're going to have a much bigger focus than previously on AI. Not only will it present itself in the opening term, but also in the first formal semester. We call them modules where students will get the choice of either taking an AI course that's more technical on the programming side or, or more of the strategic application. And given we are Georgetown, we're talking a lot about the ethical use of this technology.
So that's just one area in which our program at Georgetown is preparing students. Another one is we know recruitment is really competitive right now. The job market is not super friendly right now. And so a way to better set up our students to be successful in recruitment with the new curriculum is we're allowing students to. To choose courses starting the first module. You know, it's typically traditional that MBA students take core courses the whole first year and then they start taking electives the second year. That is not going to be the case at Georgetown. McDonough. Throughout the first year, students are choosing their courses and we are giving them advising to say you should be making the choices based on where you're recruiting. So that when you're in these recruitment interviews and they ask you about AI use and application, for example, you're not going to have to say, well, I'm taking an AI course next year and so I'm sure I'll use those learning, blah, blah, blah. You'll say, I just finished this exam or whatever, this project.
So that's another big differentiator at Georgetown is our new curriculum. And the way I think it really speaks to the moment. We are in the world now.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And some of our listeners may recall back in episode 473, we had one of your colleagues on Anne and we talked about the new curriculum and you know, but what's interesting is, I mean, and that was a really interesting episode because we went through everything that's changed. But one of the things that I hadn't realized or you know, hadn't connected the dots on is this idea that that flexibility starting in the first semester or module as you called it, really can translate directly to kind of employability, which I hadn't just made that connection until you said that now. So that is brilliant. I mean, that just seems like such a smart move for the exact reason that you cite. Yeah. So I wonder, is there any other, any other highlights about the new curriculum that you think candidates should know about? I mean, just anything else that sort of jumps to mind?
[00:11:19] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm so glad that you had that previous episode. It was with my, my boss, Dr. Sudipta Dasma Patra. She's a faculty in AI and she has been a huge contributor to the design of this new curriculum.
So other aspects that stand out to me. One is in order to get to this point of the new curriculum, we did employer surveys, we did current student focus groups and we looked at a bunch of aggregated data like from GMAC for example. And so we, you know, we of course relied on internal inputs, but it is such an extensive list of inputs that really drove the needs of this curriculum. And so with that, you will see many of our curriculum aspects stayed the same because we wanted to keep the ones that the students felt were significant.
So we definitely heard their feedback, kept it so. For example, something that we heard from the current students that they find particularly valuable in the MBA curriculum at Georgetown is a day long simulation called the Executive Challenge. And it is actually the final exam of Leadership Communications. That course and with it, alumni come to school, about 120 of them. They serve as your mock C suite, who are judges of you presenting a case study solution. And given the significance of this day, we pulled up the course to the beginning of the curriculum. We said if it's that helpful, we're going to go ahead and introduce it early on. So again, you can talk about this experience in your recruitment interviews.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And yeah, just having that flexibility and you know, not throwing everything out when you do a redesign makes a lot of sense to me.
So I do want to, you know, since I'm guessing that some of our listeners at this point are thinking, oh, how do I apply? You know, how do I apply to Georgetown? I wanted to point out something. I know that, you know, you have like most schools, you have admissions rounds, but when you hit kind of the final round, you actually move into kind of a rolling process, if I remember correctly. And that means people can still apply after those main rounds. I'm just wondering if you can help us understand, like, how does that work? And are you really, you know, I mean, are you taking people late in the cycle? Like, that's the question. I'm sure that's on everyone's mind, so I'll just put it out there. But, yeah, tell us how this all works.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: Yes, I know that's a big question that candidates have, and I wish they would talk with us about it rather than make their own assumptions.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Now, if you look at our history, typically we offer rolling admissions, period, but sometimes it's for one of the three offerings, Two of the three, or all three of them. And we don't announce formally if we're doing rolling admissions until we see what round three looks like.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: With that being said, my intuition is we will offer rolling admissions for all three.
However, until, you know, we just released round two decisions, until we see how they're yielding, until we see the application volume for round three, we won't be able to make an informed decision. But again, my instinct is that we will. And what it looks like is rolling admissions is intuitively as it's described. We're rolling, so we are releasing decisions on a rolling basis. We try to turn around decisions fairly quickly in about a week or two.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: And one of the reasons we're doing that is because we want candidates to have as much time to get prepared for the MBA as possible, both academically. There are certain deliverables they need to do, and certainly for international students and needing as much time to go through their visa process.
So there are. If we say there is a rolling period, it is because we need it. We have spots to fill. And so, absolutely, students should apply.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Okay, that's good to know. And you answered a question I had about whether international students could apply as well. And it sounds like they can. And you're doing everything that you can to make sure they have, you know, the time needed to, you know, get their visa sorted, all that stuff. I wondered, just more broadly, though, what makes someone a strong late round or rolling applicant? Like, what makes someone stand out if they're applying kind of on the late side.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: Absolutely. So we are always curious why someone is choosing to apply at that time, given that we've been accepting applications since the late summer, early fall.
And so where I find it to be really helpful is a Candidate will submit an optional essay or disclose to us in an interview about why that timing made sense to. For them. And most of the time, it's completely understandable. They were, they wanted to take the standardized test one more time. They were working out funding support with their employer. They had some personal things that were happening earlier part of the year that just were pulling them away, whatever it may be. So that's where I think it can be really helpful. Also, just have your, you know the expression have your ducks in a row. Be organized, be ready. Because if you are applying late, we need to make sure that you're going to be a quick mover on the other side if admitted, because there are some things that you'll need to play catch up on.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah, and you're right. I mean, I can definitely recall seeing candidates over the years who, you know, for one reason or another, they just come into the process later for, you know, and. And that's perfectly acceptable and. But a great idea for them to just signal that to you.
Anything in terms of, like, common mistakes you see from applicants, especially those who are applying later and anything that comes to mind, sure.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: It is obvious to us when someone really rushed an application, you know, that's where you'll see a lot of little errors that can really add up. And so even if you're under the wire, you have to proofread. And if you don't have the bandwidth, then this is when you call a favor and have a buddy who's really skilled at grammar or what have you be your second set of eyes. So that's the common mistake, is when it just, it looks and feels rushed.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So one thing I want to ask you, and this is kind of a bigger question, and feel free to, you know, we can break it down a little bit, but I'm kind of. Now that we're talking about this, I'm kind of curious about the process. And I know people are always dying to understand. You know, like, they fill out an application, they get their recommenders to do their part, they submit it, and they're always kind of like, you know, okay, now I've got to wait to find out what happens. But they're always dying to know, well, what are you all doing from the moment that the file arrives in your office? And I know when you're in a rolling process, it sounds like you move pretty quickly, a couple of weeks or something. But just generally speaking, how does the process work at McDonough? Does I presume someone reads the file? Maybe More than one person reads the file and you're trying to figure out if you want to maybe interview someone. What are the steps that typically happen to a file?
[00:18:01] Speaker A: Yes, I'm happy to go through that. So sometimes I feel like it's a misconception. So I'm glad to have the space to be transparent. So when we receive a file, first we need to ensure that it is complete. So we have a team who manages processing applications where they're in ensuring not only all of your documents are in place, but they're legible. You know, sometimes we get a blurry transcript, so we can't work with that.
So then once everything is deemed complete, then it's forwarded to review. And what that means is it is available for readers. We read blindly, meaning there is a virtual bucket of applications and readers are just grabbing them out of that bucket and starting to read. And so the timing in which you are read has nothing to do with the strength of your application. It's random.
And therefore the timing of the rest of the triggers of the workflow is dependent on when you even started. So first we read and it's one on one at that time, eventually you'll make it to a committee setting for review. But one on one, and we have to assess on paper if we think you're eligible to be considered for admission, and if so, then we'll invite you to interview. So if you're invited to interview, it's a positive sign where we want to keep moving you forward in the process, get to know you better. And then after the interview phase is when we will move into more of the committee setting where we're reviewing you with many, many eyes and also in groupings of applicants.
So therefore, candidates have to be patient because we have to process first we have to read. And that happens randomly. So you are not going to be invited to interview immediately after submitting your application. And I know it's an anxious time, but trust the process and know that you could be invited to interview up until the day before decision release. I'm sorry to do that to you, but it's in your best interest because we also do a ton of audits, make sure no one slipped anywhere. Everyone's being invited that should be invited. And still to this day, the strongest candidate I interviewed was my first year at Georgetown the day before our Round one decision release. So again, no reflection on the strength of your candidacy.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: Okay, that makes sense. So if you could, I don't know if you got us, peer behind the curtain a little bit More. But the, you know, this idea that after the first read and the interview, decisions rendered, you talk about committee. So committee is literally you and a bunch of your colleagues on the admissions team, if not all of them, like sitting in a room, kind of presenting candidates to each other and maybe with lots of coffee or like, how does this work? You kind of talk through someone and be like, oh, I read this file, here's this person, here are their numbers, here's what I think. And then there's kind of just debate. Is that what how it works? Or.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Pretty much, yes. We, fortunately, we've got two big conference rooms in our suite, so we can all be in one place together.
And we like to have treats and caffeine and we debate and discuss. And fortunately, you know, and purposefully, our admissions committee is made up of people with a variety of backgrounds, education, profession, first gen, socioeconomic status, etc. Etc. Because we need to be able to hear a variety of perspectives to be able to relate to these candidates.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Appreciate you like, shedding light on that. I know that's candidates always kind of wonder, like, what really, what really goes on.
One other question I had for you, and then we'll do some, we have some fun kind of lightning round questions that I always like to do with admissions directors. But this is a question just more generally, like, what is one thing you wish more applicants understood about the Georgetown admissions process?
[00:21:28] Speaker A: The one thing I wish that more applicants understood about the Georgetown admissions process is that many, many people review your file. And one of the reasons we do that is to make sure that we are acknowledging any biases that one person may carry, that we are giving you a comprehensive, well rounded review.
And because we acknowledge that you have put in a lot of time and effort and out of respect, we want to do the same for your review.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think sometimes candidates have this fear that, oh, they poured like, you know, 10, 20, 30 hours of their life into producing this application. And then it's like you guys are sitting there just like taking a glance at it and tossing into a bin or something. And that's not at all. It sounds like multiple reads are happening before an interview decision is rendered. And there's lots of steps and people get their due attention. I did want to ask you one other thing. I lied because I know I have these lightning round questions, but there's one other thing that just came into my mind that I wanted to ask you about, and that's more. You alluded to this earlier when we were talking about just sort of why you wanted to come and work at Georgetown and a little bit even with regards to the new curriculum. But. But we hear a lot about the sort of ethos at Georgetown and the kind of Jesuit heritage and how that sort of actually plays out. I just wonder if you'd comment on that because it is something that I think candidates need to know about as well.
[00:22:56] Speaker A: I appreciate you asking about that, Graham. Absolutely.
So a couple of things. I sincerely believe you cannot find a culture like we have at Georgetown, McDonough. It is embedded. It has been fostered over time. We filter on it when we hire folks as staff, as faculty, and certainly as we bring in students because we want them to thrive and embody the culture that we have at Georgetown.
What it is, it is a values based culture. And it stems from our founding and being the oldest Jesuit institution in the United States.
You see values such as community and diversity. You see values of CURA personalis care of the whole person, of being service minded.
So we are a group of people who really are intentional in our behavior, the way we interact with society, the way we give back to society. And you see how this culture translates on a daily basis. Where you see students truly care about one another, where they'll crowdfund to buy a student a camera because hers was stolen, or couch sharing because someone's going through a hard time and is unable to pay their rent. Or our CPAs are always who are students are always offering office hours for fundamental accounting. I always giggle. The students continue to share interview questions with each other on like a Deloitte interview. Because if you're better suited. Sure. And we'll celebrate your success.
You do not find this kind of culture in a US business, a school. It is incredibly rare. And I'm speaking to not only the schools where I've worked. Sure. But no, it's who I've gotten to know through national conferences, interacting with colleagues, sharing stories. And when I share some of these things, I see the surprise on their faces. And again, it just makes me so proud because it's a great fit for me personally.
I thrive in that kind of values based society culture as well. And I know so many people do. And if you do, this has been the place for you.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm so glad that you commented on that because I know that it's a big kind of piece of life and you know, at Georgetown University, but also within McDonough, of course.
So now what I want to do, if you don't mind, we have these kind of silly Lightning round questions that we always like to ask admissions directors. And the idea here is that, you know, I think a lot of our listeners feel like admissions directors are, you know, kind of gatekeepers and these kind of scary individuals. So we have some fun questions for you so that we can demonstrate that you're actually a regular person.
All right, so, Ann, first one. Coffee or tea?
[00:25:41] Speaker A: Tea. I've never drank coffee.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: All right. Wow. You and me are both in that camp. That's awesome. All right, beach or mountains for a getaway?
[00:25:48] Speaker A: Either, as long as I'm outside.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Okay. Are you a morning person or a night owl?
[00:25:53] Speaker A: Definitely morning.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Okay, good thing we're recording this in the morning.
What about a comfort food that you really like?
[00:26:01] Speaker A: I love Campbell's tomato soup. And if you can have a grilled cheese on the side to dip it in, that much better.
[00:26:06] Speaker B: That is a classic. All right, excellent. What's your favorite spot in Washington, DC?
[00:26:12] Speaker A: I really enjoy kayaking or paddleboarding down on the Potomac river. And then there's some breweries, Riverside. And if you can do that right after, it's that much more refreshing.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: All right. Oh, well, that sounds like a lot of funny. I didn't know. So you can just get in a kayak and jump into the Potomac and paddle. It's not super rough or anything. Okay.
Oh, wow. That great.
What about a pet peeve that you have?
[00:26:36] Speaker A: O.
Well, probably you'd have to ask my husband, but chewing loudly, typing loudly, things that are loud. You know, I just want to get in the zone. Don't disrupt that.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Okay, got it.
What's the best advice you've ever received?
[00:26:54] Speaker A: The best advice I ever received is the great thing about advice is you don't have to take it.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: You know, it's funny. I think that's particularly true when it comes to parenting.
Sidebar. But I feel like everyone has advice when you become a parent, and. Yeah, and it's often, like conflicting advice from the last person you talk to. So.
All right. What about a superpower that you wish you had?
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Sure. So I'm a big swimmer. It's a big part of who I am. What brings me peace, keeps me strong mentally and physically.
And I wish I could breathe underwater. I just. I love feeling the water, being in the water. It's a sensory experience. And if I don't have to bring my head up, that'd be even better.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: I'm guessing that the university has a pretty nice swimming pool somewhere on the campus. Is that safe to say?
[00:27:39] Speaker A: Yes. And it's right next door to McDonough. So it's very convenient.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: Okay, excellent. Got it.
What's the best thing that you read or watched or listened to recently?
[00:27:50] Speaker A: So I'm an avid reader. I love to read. I read every night before I go to bed. Basically, I read my soul to sleep just as we do with my two year old son. And I get all of my book recommendations from my dad who is constantly in a book as well. I'm reading right now, so I'm in the book. So I guess it could take a turn and I won't like it as much, but it's called First Lie Wins by Ashley Elston. And then I also have another book of hers that is waiting for me after this one called An American Marriage.
Both of them, I think won some awards, but essentially I love thrillers. I love problems that you see how they're going to be solved or unveiled to you.
And I love character development. I love getting attached to these people.
[00:28:35] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay, that's excellent. I'm noting these down too.
So I love doing these podcasts because I get all kinds of good insights and things to check out for myself in any event. So those are the lightning questions that I had for you. I know this is kind of a busy time. I think you guys have just made some decisions on round two and you're probably getting ready to start reading all the round three applications. So I appreciate you making time in the middle of the admission cycle to kind of chat with me and also just being so frank about how you guys do things over at McDonough. I know I learned a lot and I'm sure our listeners did too. So thanks a lot, Anne. Appreciate you making time.
[00:29:07] Speaker A: Thank you, Graeme. Really appreciate connecting with you.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: So listeners, if you're considering an MBA and wondering whether it's too late this season, hopefully this conversation gave you a fresh perspective. Sounds like there are opportunities potentially. Keep applying at McDonough. And obviously thanks for tuning into the Clear Admit MBA admissions podcast. Stay tuned for more episodes. We have new episodes every Monday and even more bonus episodes coming your way. And please remember to rate and review the show wherever you listen.
