Episode Transcript
[00:00:17] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this special edition of the podcast takes you live to Boston, where we recorded audio during a MBA fair that we organized with some of the very best business business schools in the world.
I moderated these panels and this first one that you're going to hear in this episode is a panel with admissions directors from Yale School of Management, Emory Goizueta, MIT Sloan and UCLA Anderson. And this panel was called mba.
Who goes? What you learn and why. It's worth it. And essentially what I did in this session is I asked admissions directors questions about exactly those things. Who goes to business school? What do you study? What are some of the different teaching methods that that are employed? What's a good time to get an mba and where should you go? Why all these kind of basic questions that are really excellent in terms of getting you up to speed on the degree as you like. Many of our listeners might be embarking on the application process. So stay tuned. You'll hear audio live from Boston that we recorded coming right up.
Welcome, everybody.
Thanks for coming. As Amber was saying, it's really nice out. So we're impressed that you're indoors with us, but I think it's going to be worthwhile. What I'm going to do in this first session is ask our esteemed panelists a bunch of questions that I was too nervous to ask when I applied to business school myself.
Questions about what the MBA is, why it's worthwhile, et cetera, and what you learn in business school.
But let me just introduce everyone really quickly. I'm going to start with Amber Walsh, who is from Yale University School of Management, where you are.
What's your exact title? I've totally blanked on it. Senior Associate Director, Senior Associate Director, Admissions. Then we're also going to hear from Melissa Rapp from Emory Goizuera. She's an Associate Dean for Graduate admissions at Emory. We also are really lucky. It was a big commute for Donna Levenson to make her way up from one. It's one building over.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: She's the go down the stairs and then back up.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. So she's the Assistant Dean of Admissions here at MIT Sloan. And last but not least, we're going to hear from Alex Lawrence, not Lawrence as it was originally spelled on screen. And Alex is the assistant dean of MBA admissions and financial aid at UCLA's Anderson School.
My name is Graham. I'm the co founder of ClearAdmit. That's all you really need to know about me, because really what we want to do is talk with our guests.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: He's a really nice guy. That's another thing you should know.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: All right, let's get started. So, Amber, the first question is for you, and this one is basically, it's really simple, but it's like, who. Who goes to business school? And do you like, do you have to have a business background? Do you have to have studied some business as an undergrad, or is it really a degree that's open to anyone, no matter where they're coming from?
[00:03:10] Speaker C: Yeah, so I think that, first of all, who goes to business school? I think that it's folks that are looking to improve their management skill, and that could be across basically any sector or function. Right. You're managing whether you want to manage people or assets or resources of any kind. An MBA just gives you kind of broad skills to do those and also gives you also space with.
I think all of us have very flexible programs where you can dig in deep where you want to and specialize.
[00:03:42] Speaker D: Where you want to.
[00:03:44] Speaker C: So it's. You know, I think traditionally we just think of business, but I won't just want to say that it's much broader than that. And we're seeing that it is much, much more mainstream that people are coming in who either are coming from a nonprofit and government sectors and going to business or staying where they are, or vice versa. So it's really a broad degree that you can do basically anything you want. I would say that people choose to go to business school because they're looking to maybe pivot into another space that they are not currently in. Maybe they feel like they've explored other spaces or had other conversations and want to move in a different direction. And I think an MBA allows you to do that. And I think a lot of people are looking to accelerate their careers as well. So you're kind of seeing that I'm getting as far as I can with the education that I have or I want to be involved in the strategy and decision making that I can see that I can get if I have the MBA underneath it.
In terms of the question about whether you need to have a business education, absolutely not.
I think all of us on the panel will agree that we like to have a lot of diversity in our classes, and we have people coming from the fine arts and the humanities and the sciences, and it makes for a really dynamic discussion in the classroom. So don't be intimidated if you don't have that really strong, like, quantitative background or business background. First of all that's maybe why you're choosing to pursue an MBA at this time as well. And that will help you get those fundamentals along the way.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: Excellent. Yeah, thanks for answering that. Melissa. I want to turn to you and ask a question about what do we actually study in business school?
You know, there's, we hear about something like the core curriculum, but also there's specialization. That happens. And also if you would comment on the format, I mean I think most people are familiar with the kind of two year MBA program, but are there other formats and. Yeah. So just elaborate on those two areas.
[00:05:49] Speaker D: Yeah, I'd love to. Thanks, Graham.
So when you come to business school, a lot of us do have what we refer to as a core curriculum. And you can think about this as the business fundamentals or foundations areas like accounting, finance, operations, marketing, what you would build a business on.
And you're going to take those courses to build your own intellectual base.
That's going to be the launch pad for you to specialize in your electives.
So the business courses, this is where we teach you about business.
The electives is where you really kind of make the program your own and you can continue it.
Many schools you can either continue to focus in one area, sometimes that's called a concentration or a major or an area of study, or you can continue to take kind of a broader approach.
You'll be able to take entrepreneurship classes or other things. So you're learning business fundamentals when you go to study for an mba. But there's so much more than that. And I don't know anybody in this room who would say I am interested in being an administrator. That is the pinnacle of achievement to be an administrator. So sometimes when you say a master of Business Administration, you're kind of like doesn't sound very cool.
The more at great schools like the ones here today that you'll experience is leadership development.
It's a global acuity, it's an understanding of data analytics. There is so much more to an MBA than those three, three letters that you'll get at top schools. And the way that schools approach teaching you those things is also going to vary. So you're going to have classroom settings, you're going to have what we call casing.
So you'll have a business case just like a story. You read about a business situation and you analyze it and you think about how to solve problems. You're going to learn structured problem solving as an mba. So you're going to have lectures, but then there's a whole host of Experiences outside of the classroom. So you'll sit in a room like this at any of our schools, but you'll also be going on global trips, you'll be leading student clubs, you'll be interacting with administration, you'll be working in your local community.
All of that is going to help build you into a leader.
These MBA programs that are here today are transformative experiences for every student.
I've talked about the two year mba, but that is not the only kind of mba. It is a widely known type of MBA here in the States. There are also one year MBA programs where if you are not looking to make a big pivot, you don't need an internship. You can start your MBA and end your MBA in just about 365 days.
Go back into the industry that you're in. There's also part time programs. So these are for working professionals, people who, my favorite phrase is they want to earn while they learn.
So if you're not quite ready to leave the workplace, you can enroll in an evening or weekend program.
Different schools are going to have different varieties of this. There's also different formats. So in person, online, hybrid, they're all options. And I think that that starts to sound overwhelming.
What you really need to do is just focus on what your goals are, whether or not you want to be full time or part time. And then start looking at schools and talking to the people who are here tonight.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And keep in mind that as you're saying, not all schools offer all flavors of mba, but in any event, so do your due diligence there. I want to ask Donna to talk a bit about the teaching methods that are deployed in business school.
You know, there's case, you know, Melissa was just saying kind of case method, experiential lecture. Do you want to just walk us through that?
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Sure.
So what I like to say is as much flexibility as you have, so do our, and in particular our faculty do, and I know faculty at many schools do as well.
[00:10:13] Speaker D: So.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: So there are some schools that are very focused on a particular methodology and that's all they do. Then there are many other schools who have a lot of variety. And so as you point out, there's courses that are very much all cases. There's a lot of classes that are traditional lectures and problem sets. There are classes that sprinkle in cases, lots and lots of project based classes.
And there's a category of projects that we have that I know other schools have as well, that we call our action Learning labs where the whole course is very much Focused on you working in a team, helping a real company solve a real and current problem.
You're spending the entire semester doing just that. I know different schools call that something different, but in any particular semester, usually after your. So back to core a little bit. Many schools have a full year of core. There are other schools like Sloan, we have a one semester core and then you have three semesters to really shape your curriculum.
And core classes tend to be taught, usually cohort driven. I'm trying to be general, but if anybody, if I'm. If it's not the way that doesn't work this way for you, let me know. So very early on, before you matriculate, you're most likely going to be put in a group, a cohort.
Depending on the size of the program, we'll say 60, 70 people. Some schools are slightly bigger and there's a very good chance you'll be taking all of your core classes together.
And even within that cohort, you'll be broken up into what we call core teams, so smaller groups. And you'll be doing a lot of your assignments together. And it's a really nice way not to be overwhelmed and to get to know a really small group really well. By the end of the semester, you either love each other and you're in everyone's wedding or you cannot wait till the semester to end. There's a mix there.
And as part of that cohort, or 60 or 70, it's also, it's a very manageable number of people to really get to know very well. But before you then start taking your electives, where you'll be taking them with all different people, depending on your interests. So a lot of variety, which is really nice.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: And that's a perfect segue to something that I wanted to ask Alex, which is about the ways in which an MBA program fosters teamwork. So what are some of the things that happen? I mean, it sounds like, I don't know if you all have learning teams as Donna's describing, or. So maybe take us through some of that.
[00:12:36] Speaker E: Yeah, sure. Thanks, Graham. And like Donna just mentioned about, excuse me, about the whole opportunity to work in teams in the classroom, but there's other ways of fostering that teamwork. When you look at some of the MBA programs, you know, one of the top two reasons that we find from all our research is reason why you're going to business school is career related.
So a number of programs have you actually work in teams in the career side as well. So you may be working with the career Services office.
And like at Anderson you'll have a group of people who may be all interested in investment banking. And so we make sure that the career services office has sort of a learning team or a group team, all focus on that aspect of it. Many of the programs also have part of the practicum in order to graduate where you may have a deliverable, you may have something again at Anderson we call it what's your capstone project. And and so again you have a lot of flexibility, opportunity to work in teams, pick some classmates, you have like sort of a maybe a mini consulting project.
Other programs also have the opportunity where you can even go deeper into some industry specific that you may be even more interested in like for example, starting a business. So again there's a lot of different aspects I think of the MBA experience where you're working in teams inside and outside the classroom.
Because like was mentioned earlier, you're going to have a transformative experience coming in as well as when you graduate.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Excellent. Amber, we're going to go back to you for this one and it's really about when is the right time to get an mba. So we hear a lot about is there a minimum number of years of work experience that someone needs to have?
Can you have too much experience? So when's the right sort of time to get an mba?
[00:14:23] Speaker C: I don't know that I'll have a really satisfying answer to that because it really depends on you. And as admissions professionals, that's what we're looking for you to tell us why now is the right time.
It may vary by school, but for example, we have no minimum or maximum years of work experience. We have a Silver Scholars program where you can start immediately after undergrad. And we have folks coming in with 15, 20 years of work experience.
If you look at the profile pages, you'll see I think for most of us it kind of averages out at five years of work experience. But I feel like the trend is maybe going down because people are getting interested in management education earlier.
I would just say why does it make sense to you? Have you seen an opportunity that you want to take advantage and an MBA can get you there? Is there a problem that you're trying to solve and management skills can help you solve those problems? It really does become a personal preference for you. I think that's also can kind of calm nerves too that you have this kind of big space in which you can pursue this.
And we have.
And regardless of your age, you're going to feel fully integrated into that MBA class and Everyone is valuing the perspective that you're coming in with.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely a very broad range. And I think that's, again, the beauty of business school is that you can come from anything into business school. You can go off and do anything after business school. And even in terms of how much experience you've had, there's this tremendous flexibility.
Melissa, how do I go about picking which schools to apply to, other than. I know you're going to say everyone should apply to Emory, but, like, how many schools should I apply to? And, like, where should I start if I'm thinking about going to business school?
[00:16:08] Speaker D: Well, I applaud everyone for being here tonight because this is a great place to start hearing from schools, picking up information, chatting.
I think three to six schools is very reasonable.
Less than three feels a little risky because if you're looking at the schools that are here tonight, they're all very competitive.
You go more than six, and I'm going to say you're going to really stretch yourself thin because each of our application really requires some work. This is not something that you should try to pull off in an evening. There are essays, there are interviews to be done. There is an export expectation of admissions teams that you have an idea of why you want to come to our schools.
There are some things that are very similar from school to school. We just talked. We all nodded our heads. Yes, we have core curriculum. Yes, we have teamwork. Yes, we do leadership development.
But there are very important differences between our schools as well. So whether that's. We're in the Southeast, in Atlanta. Do you want to be in Atlanta? Do you. Would you rather be in Boston? Do you want to go out to the beautiful, sunny California?
Yes. Yes, you do.
You know, New Haven? Or New Haven. Sorry. Or New Haven? Beautiful, beautiful place, you know, so where you want to spend your time? Maybe you've always been in one part of the country and you want to try out another part of the country. What a great way to do that during your MBA studies.
Maybe you want to, you know, you want to end up in New York, but you're currently in Des Moines, so go to school in New York. It's a good way to get there.
Geography is one thing. Class size, general community. And we always talk about this thing, fit. You'll hear us say, you know, you gotta find your fit. And what does that mean when you choose an MBA program?
You're choosing a network, a community, a group of people, an organization that you will be associated with for the rest of your life.
You ought to like the people.
Right. You ought to be proud of where you go. You ought to feel really good about where you go.
So for some of you that'll be in a city, some of you that'll be in. In more of a college town, they're all good choices. So you need to really focus on what's your fit. Not your colleague's fit, not your brother's fit, what is your fit?
And pick the three to six schools where you think you're gonna be a good fit and learn all you can about them and really focus on delivering great applications to those schools. So you'll be delighted with your outcome.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And just to underline, I mean, you're going to spend two, most. Most cases, two years at this place that you're choosing. Right. So it's worth doing the homework. And also doing the homework will pay dividends in your admissions results because the schools will recognize that, you know, that you've done your due diligence.
Let's imagine, Donna, that I've applied to the three to six schools that Melissa has recommended, and I run the table. I've got offers from all of them, scholarships. Everything's well done. Yeah.
How do I decide where to go?
[00:19:35] Speaker B: You know what? I firmly believe you'll know.
Well, no. And it ties a little bit back to the fit.
I encourage you to visit.
Visit if you can before, and if you can't, once you get in, you should totally visit. The minute you walk in the front door of a school, it has a personality, and you're going to feel it, and you're going to know whether or not it feels like home or it doesn't. And so I really strongly encourage you.
I mean, there's some other practical things like Melissa mentioned, you know, in terms of class size, in terms of. Are there certain specialties that a school is known for that you're really interested in?
But in the end, I feel like it's. It becomes an emotional decision, which is not a bad thing, because, again, you become a part of it and it becomes a part of you for the rest of your life.
[00:20:24] Speaker D: Can I just real quick all this. I think most schools, if not all, offer some sort of visit days in the fall where you can get a lot of bang for your buck in terms of exposure to a class, to faculty, to other students.
So you should. If we don't know them today, we'll know them soon and they'll be on our websites. Start planning some fall visits. Save those airline miles, get a new miles card, something so that you can Take advantage of those, because those are really the best way, really encourage you to go to those for the schools that you're interested in.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: And I'll add that most schools, once you get in, roll out the red carpet and have kind of a welcome weekend or an admitted students weekend. Those are obviously vital to attend as well.
And I would add just one other thing, which is that I think, you know, you can kind of kick the tires a little bit more once you've been accepted to a program. So you can have that conversation with the career services office about whether there's a fit between what you're trying to attempt to do and where the school's placing people afterwards. So think about all those things as well, like the geography matters, the career placement, all those facts and figures that you will get your hands on as you try to figure out where to go.
Alex, I want to turn to you with our final question. These are really short panels tonight by design, so that it gives you guys time to go and talk to schools at the tables out there.
But last question on this panel, Alex.
[00:21:45] Speaker E: Probably a fun topic. You're saving it for less.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it's. Why should I get an mba? I mean, you know, we hear about this return on investment.
Are there other reasons? I mean, a lot of people talk about the money. Oh, you're going to get a big job. It's, you know, yeah, it's, it's expensive to get an mba, but you're going to make a lot of money. And everyone talks about roi, like, over and over again. But are there any other reasons? I mean, because I think sometimes those are understated.
[00:22:05] Speaker E: Yeah. I mean, I would say, you know, just underscore that ROI piece because again, you know, the reality is that the cost of an MBA is expensive. Right. You can run the numbers and, you know, but at the end of the day, this is the thing that I don't think you can put a value on. You know, as was discussed earlier, the network that you will become a part of, the skill sets that you will acquire. You know, you're, you're, you're talking to some seasoned professionals. So we've seen sort of the trajectory of people have gone through our programs where they joined a Fortune 500 firm, launched their own business.
But then, like I would say, when you get later in life, so to speak, that sort of social capital that you gain just from that investment those two years, because it is a lifelong partnership, you know, whatever school that you go with. So, you know, you see, you hear people talk about the opportunity cost and, you know, whatever the salary you're making and things like that. And you again, you can see the numbers. But I tell you, once you get five, 10 years out, even in difficult times like these, you'll see that, you know, the organizations, the business partners that you may connect with, whatever that looks like, you know, that investment that you make at that time of going to business school, it'll be, it'll seem much smaller than what you think it is right now. Again, it looks big on the websites. We all have them there. But my advice would also be talk to current MBA students at the schools. You know, they're financing their, their mba. Everybody's doing it in a different way. They may be, you know, a few loans, case competitions, maybe they're being sponsored by their company, whatever that looks like. But I think once you start talking to people, your peers who are in business school and get more comfortable with the idea of doing that investment, and then look at what the alumni are doing, I know you'll probably see, well, they're probably on all our websites, like the career outcomes right now. They may not look a little, they may not look good. But anybody who's gone through, say, things like the financial crisis, Covid, whatever, who've gone through that, gotten their MBAs, they are, I believe, much better off if, you know, now versus not having gone and gotten an mba. And then I love the advice, Donna, you said earlier about that when you walk in, you'll know, you know, you get accepted and you visit all the places, you'll know right away. So definitely take advantage of that opportunity.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And I would just add as well that all four schools here, and really all the schools attending tonight go out of their way to make it easy for you to connect with current students.
Literally often, right on the website. You can kind of, you know, connect or, you know, they'll make it happen for you. So if you want to have those conversations with current students about how they're financing it or how they decided to go, they're easy to have. And having those conversations will then create clearly be reflected in your essays and everything that you're preparing for the business schools, because you're just going to be more knowledgeable and it'll show when you interview, etc. So have those conversations. It's really worthwhile.
I'm going to let you guys go so you can be at your tables and we're going to move on to the next thing. But I really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this.
